5.56 in 180 Series Mini 14?

august1410 · Mar 6, 2015

I have been reading online, even from the Ruger forum, that any Mini 14, with the exception of the Ranch Rifle, can safely chamber and fire 5.56. Though the rifle is clearly marked .223, it is possible.

I like to remain on the side of caution. Mine only reads .223. It does not read .223 only....

There are a LOT of folks online stating they have fired thousands of rounds of 5.56 in their old Mini 14s....and, well, I would like to know if I have a viable alternative if I cannot find .223.

I am well aware of the .223/5.56 comparison to .38/.357. The scuttlebutt is all Mini 14s (except for Ranch Rifles) were chambered in 5.56 without expressly saying so on the rifle itself.

I plan a phone call to Ruger, but thought one of you experts might shed some light on it.

rdc · Mar 6, 2015

I thought it was safe in all minis except the target model.

amoebicmagician · Mar 6, 2015

okay, here is the deal-

Other than very very early iterations of the mini-14 with the wooden handguard, all mini-14 models save the target can fire both 5.56 and .223 interchangeably.

The ranch rifle specifically says in the manual that it has a 5.56 spec chamber.

As for the whole .223 vs 5.56 interchangeability thing in general:

Don't worry about it

it has only been in the very very recent past that people have gotten upset about this.

Worst case scenario if you fire 5.56 out of a .223 spec barrel you end up with a tad less accuracy, but even that is not always the case

I have a .223 savage that shoots 5.56 all day long, and my uncle has a SPECIFICALLY .223 chambered AR-15 that we have been shooting all manner of mixed willy nilly ammo out of, and it has digested it all with not a single lost step

Ask an instructor who has been teaching defensive rifle classes for more than 10 years and they will tell you this whole paranoia about non interchangeability is a very recent phenomenon.

However, you can rest easy because the mini-14 in almost all iterations EXCEPT THE TARGET is made SPECIFICALLY TO FIRE BOTH INTERCHANGEABLY

Kman · Mar 6, 2015

I have an older 180 series and I have run .223 and 5.56 without problem. No idea of round count or one vs the other.

Never verified the 5.56 theory, but always heard gtg except in target models.

If you want extra mags and don't want to spend on Ruger, try John Masen. CDNN usually has them in stock for about half of Ruger $. Look for stock #'s starting with JB.

august1410 · Mar 6, 2015

rdc said:
I thought it was safe in all minis except the target model.

I think this is what I meant....not the Ranch Rifle. I'm tired and got it mixed up.

My Mini is an old one....a 1976 with the wood handguard. I don't mind shooting solely .223.

zoostation · Mar 6, 2015

amoebicmagician said:
okay, here is the deal-

As for the whole .223 vs 5.56 interchangeability thing in general:

Don't worry about it

it has only been in the very very recent past that people have gotten upset about this.

Worst case scenario if you fire 5.56 out of a .223 spec barrel you end up with a tad less accuracy, but even that is not always the case

I have a .223 savage that shoots 5.56 all day long, and my uncle has a SPECIFICALLY .223 chambered AR-15 that we have been shooting all manner of mixed willy nilly ammo out of, and it has digested it all with not a single lost step

As a factory (Colt) certified AR-15 armorer, I would have to respectfully say that this part is not really a good idea, in my opinion.

I think the true answer in the "is it safe to fire 5.56 from a .223 chamber" question is; no one is really sure, but there's enough concerns to call it unsafe, and SAAMI has done so.

Just a couple of things to keep in mind. 5.56 military rounds run around 5,000 psi hotter than .223, generally speaking. So we're talking about a 8% or so difference in pressure. But, in addition to that the leade (smooth barrel in front of the chamber before rifling begins to allow the bullet to seat) is almost twice as long in a 5.56 chamber. A shorter leade can also raise pressures, especially with a longer bullet.

Now I've seen plenty of people do it, and in my younger days I did it too, and never had any problems. But I wouldn't do it knowing what I know now.

I'd also be careful pushing my luck these days with the quality of some of the rifles out there. Even before the big rush in 2013, and certainly after it, you saw every jerkoff with a garage and a drill press getting their 07 FFL and thinking they were going to strike paydirt by building and selling AR-15's with cheap parts they bought from who knows where. As someone who is around all kinds of guns just about every workday, I have seen some shitty, shitty, I mean positively shitty, cheap AR's out there.

I mean uppers shipped with barrels with obstructed crowns, gas blocks that literally fall off the barrel when the gun is picked up, uppers and lowers so out of spec the bolt carrier group can't cycle, I could go on. But what I'm trying to say is I wouldn't recommend doing this with any rifle, and I would doubly not recommend it in a $600 gun from Charlie's Motorcycle Repair, Gunmaking, and Floral Candle Shop. One has no idea what kind of steel the barrel is made of, how well the chamber was cut, or even if it has reject parts on it.

I would not do it, but this is just my opinion.

amoebicmagician · Mar 6, 2015

hmm

While I tend to customize, build, or obsess over the guns I buy, I realize now that not everyone does so.

My point is this:
While I may not recommend everyone go out and shoot their 5.56 in .223 chambers, it was done SO EXTENSIVELY before there was a concern about it as to prove in my mind that there is no real danger in doing so, assuming the gun is in working order

In the examples you cited, whether shooting .223 or 5.56 spec ammo, I wouldn't trust EITHER ONE in shitty guns like you mentioned.

When I first found out about the .223 wylde chamber, I was intrigued enough to bore scope one, and the only difference I could see was that it was a .223 chamber with the ramp at the leade much less of an acute angle than normal, much less of a steep slope.

It is SAAMI's job to be paranoid, I mean for christ's sake, do you know how much pressure, percentage wise, a barrel has to be able to safely contain before it can be accepted as proofed? It's nuts.

So, as an addendum.

I will continue to mix and match, as all my firearms are meticulously maintained, although I do not explicitly encourage you to do so, however if it was an emergency you would be fine as long as the gun functioned safely with it's own chambering

kenpo333 · Mar 6, 2015

amoebicmagician said:
okay, here is the deal-

Other than very very early iterations of the mini-14 with the wooden handguard, all mini-14 models save the target can fire both 5.56 and .223 interchangeably.

The ranch rifle specifically says in the manual that it has a 5.56 spec chamber.

As for the whole .223 vs 5.56 interchangeability thing in general:

Don't worry about it

it has only been in the very very recent past that people have gotten upset about this.

Worst case scenario if you fire 5.56 out of a .223 spec barrel you end up with a tad less accuracy, but even that is not always the case

I have a .223 savage that shoots 5.56 all day long, and my uncle has a SPECIFICALLY .223 chambered AR-15 that we have been shooting all manner of mixed willy nilly ammo out of, and it has digested it all with not a single lost step

Ask an instructor who has been teaching defensive rifle classes for more than 10 years and they will tell you this whole paranoia about non interchangeability is a very recent phenomenon.

However, you can rest easy because the mini-14 in almost all iterations EXCEPT THE TARGET is made SPECIFICALLY TO FIRE BOTH INTERCHANGEABLY

I thought this for years. Most civilian firearms may not be fired enough for the problem to show but from the ballistic tests I've seen recently it is better to err on the side of caution and do whatever the owner's manual says on the matter as far as ar's go.

amoebicmagician · Mar 6, 2015

kenpo333 said:
I thought this for years. Most civilian firearms may not be fired enough for the problem to show but from the ballistic tests I've seen recently it is better to err on the side of caution and do whatever the owner's manual says on the matter as far as ar's go.

could you link please to the ballistics tests?

I love stuff like that

clay pigeon · Mar 6, 2015

I find it interesting that alternating 5,56 and 223 along with 7.62 x 51 and 308 Winchester in rifles was never a problem from the early 60's to the 90's then Al Gore invented the internet, and shortly there after it became a problem.

zoostation · Mar 7, 2015

clay pigeon said:
I find it interesting that alternating 5,56 and 223 along with 7.62 x 51 and 308 Winchester in rifles was never a problem from the early 60's to the 90's then Al Gore invented the internet, and shortly there after it became a problem.

Not really. While we can debate about the whole 5.56 and .223 thing all day long, there is little debate that firing commercial .308 ammo out of old 7.62x51 military rifles is a good way to risk earning oneself the nickname lefty and a free seeing eye dog.

RB5082 · Mar 7, 2015

Switching between 5.56 and .223 never caused me any issues in my K-Mini 180 Series. Although it was never a tack driver to begin with. I miss that rifle.

clay pigeon · Mar 7, 2015

zoostation said:
Not really. While we can debate about the whole 5.56 and .223 thing all day long, there is little debate that firing commercial .308 ammo out of old 7.62x51 military rifles is a good way to risk earning oneself the nickname lefty and a free seeing eye dog.

Doing that tends to bend or break op rods, not blow them up. Excessive pressure in the gas system is not the same as excessive breach pressure.

jimbobborg · Mar 7, 2015

Why don't you call Ruger and ask them? They actually answer the phone on weekdays.

Vile Shadow · Mar 7, 2015

clay pigeon said:
Doing that tends to bend or break op rods, not blow them up. Excessive pressure in the gas system is not the same as excessive breach pressure.

Matters not. I don't want either one, so 7.62 NATO goes in ALL my .308's.

zoostation · Mar 7, 2015

clay pigeon said:
Doing that tends to bend or break op rods, not blow them up. Excessive pressure in the gas system is not the same as excessive breach pressure.

I was talking about chamber pressure. And yes you absolutely do run a risk of a catastrophic failure by running commercial .308 in old military rifles chambered for 7.62.

Russ D · Mar 7, 2015

The last thing I read about this was a study that tested a huge sample of both 5.56 chambers and 223 chambers. The results were that statistically there were no differences in how gun makers were cutting the chambers. Some .223's were closer to 5.56 chambers and vice/versa. Also there is the ammo part of the equation. I've fired a ton of underpowered 5.56 that was not nearly as hot as some .223. In my opinion they are interchangeable, but it is entirely different with .308 and 7.62x51

clay pigeon · Mar 7, 2015

zoostation said:
I was talking about chamber pressure. And yes you absolutely do run a risk of a catastrophic failure by running commercial .308 in old military rifles chambered for 7.62.

In today's litaguis world you would think that there would be warning labels on boxes of ammunition listing the firearms its not to be used in with your thinking.
I have never seen a warning label on any 223, 5.56 or 308,7.62 x 51 or 30.06 boxes of ammo. But I have seen it on some 45-70 ammo telling you not to shoot this in a trapdoor rifle.
Then let's look at Springfield Armory's website, they should know a little about building a M14 platform rifle. Here's what it says under what ammo can I shoot in my Springfield firearm.
WHAT AMMUNITION SHOULD I USE IN MY SPRINGFIELD FIREARM?

Never use reloaded, remanufactured, or handloaded ammunition. Ammunition that does not meet SAAMI, CIP or NATO standards could cause death, serious personal injury, or property damage. Only use high quality commercially manufactured ammunition in the same caliber as your pistol. (Note: Use of reloaded, remanufactured, or handloaded ammunition may void the warranty.)

Looks like that don't care.

Capt Skup · Mar 7, 2015

Within the span of two weeks I bought two Mini-14 Ranch rifles, their serial numbers are not that far apart. One has .223 stamped on the receiver, the other has 5.56 stamped on it. Checked with Ruger, they had not explanation but said they both are safe to fire 5.56 rounds thru. I talked this subject over with a real live knowledgable person, not a internet expert. He said the issue can be that .223 have short throats compared to most 5.56 chambered barrels. Using heavy grain loads such as 75 grain bullets may cause higher pressures than normal in .223 chambered barrels since the bullet may extend almost into the rifling.

zoostation · Mar 7, 2015

clay pigeon said:
In today's litaguis world you would think that there would be warning labels on boxes of ammunition listing the firearms its not to be used in with your thinking.
I have never seen a warning label on any 223, 5.56 or 308,7.62 x 51 or 30.06 boxes of ammo. But I have seen it on some 45-70 ammo telling you not to shoot this in a trapdoor rifle.
Then let's look at Springfield Armory's website, they should know a little about building a M14 platform rifle. Here's what it says under what ammo can I shoot in my Springfield firearm.
WHAT AMMUNITION SHOULD I USE IN MY SPRINGFIELD FIREARM?

Never use reloaded, remanufactured, or handloaded ammunition. Ammunition that does not meet SAAMI, CIP or NATO standards could cause death, serious personal injury, or property damage. Only use high quality commercially manufactured ammunition in the same caliber as your pistol. (Note: Use of reloaded, remanufactured, or handloaded ammunition may void the warranty.)

Looks like that don't care.

Uhh, besides the fact that references their pistols, looks like they do care.

Only use high quality commercially manufactured ammunition in the same caliber as your pistol.

As I've said in every post on this, I'm primarily talking about shooting .308 ammo in old military rifles, like converted Mausers. The heat treatment back in those days wasn't as precise, and metal fatigue is also a cumulative process. Especially with bolt rifles as when they kaboom they tend to launch the bolt backward into the shooters forehead. I know of at least one bolt action failure on an old Lee Navy that killed a guy up in Jersey this way a few years ago.

Oh, by the way. Thank you for bringing up Springfield. Here's an older (serial dates it to around 1984) Springer post surplus-.308 kaboom. Fortunately the shooter was bench resting and still has both hands.

5.56 in 180 Series Mini 14?

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