Inconsistent seating depth 38spc LSWC

Okay, so please help me on what I might be doing wrong.

I THINK I've maybe, possibly solved it, but I didn't have the time tonight or desire to load up even more ammo.

So I loaded 12 rounds of 125gr RNFMJ and 12 rounds of 158gr Missouri coated LSWC.

All worked fine. The 158gr all seemed to seat pretty consistently.

Fast forward to today. My seating depth was wildly off loading 50 rounds of 158gr coated LSWC. Like varying +.030" to -.02" or so. I'd get some at 1.455" which was my target, some at 1.475" some as short as 1.435" and everything in between. Generally seemed to be about 33% at the target, 33% at the long end and 33% at the short end. Not a lot a little longer or short if that makes sense.

In playing with it I realized I wasn't expanding the mouth enough. Adding a little more helped a tiny bit. I also realized I didn't have the seating die set properly. Too much crimp. Backed it off a little and consistency improved a little, but only a little. I managed to finally get them all within .010" on that batch of 50.

Loaded up another 25 tonight and the consistency again was a bit better, but I still ended up with 3 rounds long and 3 rounds short out of the 25, the other's were within .010" (nothing longer than 1.460" and nothing shorter than 1.450" except those 3 long and 3 short rounds). Not great consistency, but a lot better.

I took the die completely off, took it apart, put it back together, screwed it down and then having watched several videos I took the one person's advice and backed off the zip spindle a bit, and used the zip spindle it as the guide for one full revolution backing off the seating die rather than guessing what a full revolution was. Then locked it down and then adjusted the bullet seating stem to get the right depth. got the 3 "long" rounds seated right, then loaded 3 dummies backing the seating stem off a little and then to the correct depth before loading them (figuring the 3 long rounds had too much neck tension still).

I then knocked the 3 short rounds some with my bullet puller. Not enough to knock the bullet out, but enough to lengthen the COAL a fair amount. Popped each on back in to the press without adjusting the bullet seater die from where I had it set from the 3 dummies that set right at 1.455" and it set all 3 short (but now partially pulled) bullets right where they should be and the neck tension appears good (I can't shove the bullet in, and they ended up at 1.458", 1.456" and 1.457" I figure that's pretty good).

Thoughts? I know it helps to actually be there and watch the process. Its a Lyman T-mag turret press if that also helps any.

Was I probably just having the neck tension/crimp too tight and that was messing with the coated LSWC proper depth? Any other thoughts or things I can check? I will load up some more at some point, but with 75 rounds loaded and having spent like 6hrs reloading today (I was also figuring out how to work the Lyman powder dispenser rather than using scoops and a scale. I really like that Lyman powder dispenser! I weighed the first half dozen charges, a few in the middle and the last few and all were 3.4gr. Variation less than .1gr).

Each bullet shape has its own seating stem. Round nose, Semi Wad Cutters, Round Flat Nose, Wad Cutters all need their own shaped seating stem or you will have problems. It all has to do with where the seating stem contacts the bullet. For best accuracy, many of us make out own seating stem face by buying blanks and filling them with JB Weld or hot glue and then pushing in the bullet we want to use.

Should that be necessary to get say, .010” accuracy on seating depth? I don’t need absolute match accuracy, but varying roughly .050” seems like a huge amount to me. Though I did seem to get a lot closer by the time I gave up for the night (but didn’t load enough to be confident it’s within that .010”)

The critical factor is the relation between the case mouth and the crimp groove .

Crap. Seating stem was it. Mostly.

I finally noticed/found that my hornady die did come with a different one. Totally flat. Loaded up 5 rounds of the LSWC with the flat stem in there and each one came out perfectly at 1.456”.

So next question, what might be causing them to still be a little sticky in the cylinder? Drops in fine to my Lyman chamber checker. 3 drop fine in to the cylinder of my revolver. Two are almost a perfect fit but need light (like 2lbs) of pressure to death then in the cylinder.

That’s a lot better than what I had loaded earlier today. 35 passed the cylinder drop tests. The rest need to be pulled apart and resized (so like 40 F-ing rounds!)

Of those 40 rounds about a third drop in to the chamber checker fine, but not my revolver cylinder.

Best guess is the case mouth was getting expanded too much and not closed up on seating the bullet. I tweaked the expander die so it isn’t expanding as much, but still seems enough to get the bullet on there. Should I slightly tighten the seater die to taper crimp a little? Other suggestions? I know leads running .358 and not .357”, but with some of the “everything seemed to work right” rounds dropping straight in and a couple not quiet not sure where to go from there without resulting in another 10 or 20 rounds I have to pull apart (or more).

Lastly, case length have any impact? I measured the 5 and it’s 2 different head stamps and they are running a total difference of .005” from longest to shortest case. All are within the case length range Hornady’s manual suggests (biased towards the minimum trim to length, but not under it).

Thanks. Hopefully my newbie questions arent totally exhausting :-)

So late night of playing with reloading (I am done now. Getting too tired) AND reinstalling windows on my computer because I managed to screw it up. Upside is it’s the first tome I’ve managed to do that in about 4 years.

I pulled apart 10 rounds, resized everything and reloaded them. 8 of the 10 dropped right in my revolver cylinder. 2 needed that little bit of pressure and a tap on the ejector rod extracts them. Those were earlier rounds of the 10 I redid. I think I’ve got the neck tension and case expansion right where it wants to be. Could also be the bullets were slightly messed up pulling the rounds apart as the lead is fairly soft.

I measured all 10 rounds and they all come in +/-.001” of 1.456”. So yay to that.

Boo to having to still pull apart 37 rounds tomorrow (I counted. I shouldn’t have counted) and redo them.

I guess it’s all a learning experience.

Lee Factory Crimp Die.

Some reloaders believe it’s a solution in search of a problem, but I guarantee that if you seated and crimped in separate steps and used the Lee FCD, every single round would plunk right into the cylinder. I have Lee, Dillon, and Hornady does, but I crimp everything with a Lee FCD.

Maybe I missed it but on the rounds that are sticky, did you try them in all the cylinders? Maybe your revolver has a couple chambers that are a little on the tighter side. Also, chambers are clean?

Are you getting any build up near the front of the cylinder about where the mouth of the case will be? You can get carbon buildup in that area that normal quick cleaning doesn't remove.

Thanks guys, I'll check carbon build up, see if that is maybe it. I did try in all cylinders and just some rounds are sticky, but they plunk in the Lyman chamber checker just fine (most of the "old" ones that I still need to pull apart ALSO stick in the Lyman chamber checker).

If I were to go with the Lee crimp die, how do I work it? Set the seater die really loose for the taper crimp, set it to the proper bullet depth and then run it in the crimping die (I assume it is a roll crimp)?

When crimping separately, you just adjust your seating die to not crimp. All you need to do is take to back off the seating die a few turns, run a case into the die, screw the die down until you feel it hit the case (light contact), then back off the die 1/2 turn and you are set to go. When setting the die, use an case that averages in between your longest and shortest. Never use a Hornady case for measuring anything. They are noted for making their cases on the short side of the specification.

John from MD said:

When crimping separately, you just adjust your seating die to not crimp. All you need to do is take to back off the seating die a few turns, run a case into the die, screw the die down until you feel it hit the case (light contact), then back off the die 1/2 turn and you are set to go. When setting the die, use an case that averages in between your longest and shortest. Never use a Hornady case for measuring anything. They are noted for making their cases on the short side of the specification.

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Thanks!

Since for now I am stuck with seating and crimping in one step, suggestions on how it should be setup?

Right now I am following the directions to the letter. Run up a case that is sized and expanded, run the setting die down to the case. Back off one full turn. Then put a bullet in and run the seating stem down until the bullet is at the desired COAL.

What I am not clear on is if the case mouth should be expanded Or not when running the seating die down to the case mouth and then backing it off. Watching videos a couple guys mention sized and expanded. Most just say “sized case”

Cleaning the cylinder helped slightly, but a couple rounds still need light(er now) pressure to seat. Most of the ones I’ve redone drop in and drop out. Tore apart the rest of the cartridges this morning. Will redo the rest later today.

Without knowing more, cast bullets often need to be run through a bullet swaging die to uniform the diameter. Measure a random sample of bullets to check the diameter.

dist1646 said:

Without knowing more, cast bullets often need to be run through a bullet swaging die to uniform the diameter. Measure a random sample of bullets to check the diameter.

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A quick search indicates only a couple of companies that make a bullet staging die. Is it universal tool, or caliber specific?

Bullet swaging and bullet sizing are two completely different processes. Back to reloading .38 special. If you are shooting light loads, I wouldn't even bother to crimp as 1, you don't need bullet pull to build up pressure and 2, the recoil is not enough to pull a bullet and jam the cylinder.

Here is what I suggest for single die reloading.

Back the seating stem and size die body out a few turns. Run a belled case into the size die and adjust the die body down until you just feel the die hitting the mouth of the case. Now lock the size die down. Next, insert a bullet into the belled case and run it up into the die. Run the case up and down into the die until you get the Cartridge Over All Length (COAL) that you want. Now back the seating stem out of the die body. Start runing the case up and down the die while screwing in the die body until the case will 1, go into a case length gauge or 2, will go into your cylinder.

Not crimping light revolver loads will make the brass last longer as the mouth is worked less. You MUST crimp if you are shooting heavy loads as the powder won't burn efficiently if you don't and you may wind up pulling a bullet and locking up your cylinder.

Speedluvn said:

A quick search indicates only a couple of companies that make a bullet staging die. Is it universal tool, or caliber specific?

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Swaging dies are for when you're casting your own bullets. If you're buying bullets online, they are not necessary.

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lazarus said:

Thanks!

Since for now I am stuck with seating and crimping in one step, suggestions on how it should be setup?

Right now I am following the directions to the letter. Run up a case that is sized and expanded, run the setting die down to the case. Back off one full turn. Then put a bullet in and run the seating stem down until the bullet is at the desired COAL.

What I am not clear on is if the case mouth should be expanded Or not when running the seating die down to the case mouth and then backing it off. Watching videos a couple guys mention sized and expanded. Most just say “sized case”

Cleaning the cylinder helped slightly, but a couple rounds still need light(er now) pressure to seat. Most of the ones I’ve redone drop in and drop out. Tore apart the rest of the cartridges this morning. Will redo the rest later today.

Click to expand...

Try this, run die down till it touches case then back off 1 turn. Seat bullet till you get the length you want. Then back the seater stem off and screw die in till u get the desired crimp. ( baby steps on this ) once your crimp is right lock die then raise the ram with case and bullet and lower seating stem till it touches bullet. Done. I’m thinking your crimp is not right.

erwos said:

SIZING dies are for when you're casting your own bullets. If you're buying bullets online, they are not necessary.

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Click to expand...

FIFY.

Swaging is a completely different method of making bullets and very few individuals actually practice it as it is labor intensive and very expensive.

erwos said:

Swaging dies are for when you're casting your own bullets. If you're buying bullets online, they are not necessary.

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Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarification

On your particular SWC's , when seated properly in the crimping grove, is the shoulder of the bullet extended beyond the case ? ( This would Not be an inherently bad thing . In fact it is a positive design feature .)

BUT , if your Throat is undersized , the cartridge would not chamber properly . The field expedient way to check , is a bullet should pass through the throat with no more than light finger pressure .

If not , two possibilities - The throat could be indeed undersized , or the bullet sizing could be inconsistent , with at least some of the bullets oversize .

What is the nominal diameter of your bullets ? .358 is the most common, and usually correct diameter for .38/357 cast bullets . Use your micrometer , and check the actual diameter of a meaningful same of your bullets . If you are feeling really froggy , measure the diameter of all your throats ( worth a discussion of its own .


Field Expedient method to use up your existing stash of bullets , in your revolver as-is : Seat the bullets deeper in the case , so than you are crimping over the front shoulder rather than the crimp groove .

IF the bullets are either inconsistent , or larger dia than listed on box/ advertised , that would be grounds for a refund . Or to skip a potential hassle , use your existing supply crimped over the shoulder , and use a different supplier for your next batch . Unless you are planned otherwise to persue bullet casting , or you have multiple thousands of bullets in question , probably not worthwhile to resize them yourself .

OR , if the throats are indeed undersized , the proper step is to ream all the throats to a consistent size, typically .3585 to .359 . Correcting undersized/ inconsistent throats will usually result in significant accuracy improvement .