Interesting 2A TV Interpretation

BeoBill · Nov 4, 2015

Reality Check: The True Intent Of The Second Amendment
http://truthinmedia.com/reality-check-intent-second-amendment/

The right to keep and bear arms may be the single most controversial and most contentious right listed in our Bill of Rights.

Much of the root of that contention is in understanding what the founders and framers actually meant.

What is the Second Amendment really about?

This is a Reality Check you won’t get anywhere else...

ComeGet · Nov 4, 2015

Absolutely.

The founders had recently finished fighting against what at the start of the conflict was their own government, and which was tyrannical and oppressive.

I think the idea that government needed to be kept in check was not novel to them. It was, in fact, a probability and not just a possibility that the need would arise.

Antis try to spin the 2A to mean that only the well-regulated militia should have firearms. I read it to mean that ordinary citizens need to have arms because the government's militia exists.

It's just another form of checks and balances.

babalou · Nov 4, 2015

Agreed

ComeGet said:
Absolutely.

The founders had recently finished fighting against what at the start of the conflict was their own government, and which was tyrannical and oppressive.

I think the idea that government needed to be kept in check was not novel to them. It was, in fact, a probability and not just a possibility that the need would arise.

Antis try to spin the 2A to mean that only the well-regulated militia should have firearms. I read it to mean that ordinary citizens need to have arms because the government's militia exists.

It's just another form of checks and balances.

I see it as two parts of a sentence where you can replace the comma between the militia part and the right of the people part shall not be infringed with the word 'and' to satisfy both the Federalists and the anti-federalists. Now both sides were happy

Mike · Nov 5, 2015

Just look at my signature line below.

"[T]he militia is a force to be convened in response to a tyrannical government, not in defense of the nation. ...Such a militia could not possibly exist if the people who were to fill its ranks were not properly armed."

ComeGet · Nov 5, 2015

Mike, I respectfully disagree.

Mr. Perkin's quote implies that the people are the militia.

I don't think that's right.

I interpret the 2A to say that the inherent right of the people to keep and bear arms should not be infringed so that the people are able to oppose the state's militia, which is necessary to maintain the free state but can be used against the people when the state turns tyrannical.

babalou · Nov 5, 2015

yup

ComeGet said:
Mike, I respectfully disagree.

Mr. Perkin's quote implies that the people are the militia.

I don't think that's right.

I interpret the 2A to say that the inherent right of the people to keep and bear arms should not be infringed so that the people are able to oppose the state's militia, which is necessary to maintain the free state but can be used against the people when the state turns tyrannical.

Agreed.

aireyc · Nov 5, 2015

ComeGet said:
Mike, I respectfully disagree.

Mr. Perkin's quote implies that the people are the militia.

I don't think that's right.

I interpret the 2A to say that the inherent right of the people to keep and bear arms should not be infringed so that the people are able to oppose the state's militia, which is necessary to maintain the free state but can be used against the people when the state turns tyrannical.

You have to understand it in historical context. The Bill of Rights applied to the federal government. The states were free to restrict firearms however they liked. That's why some states included their own firearm protections in their state constitutions. And some of those protections specifically mention things like self-defense. Maryland does not have that.

The Bill of Rights was proposed as an added layer of protection that would restrict the federal government. Many felt that because it was a government of enumerated powers, the Congress would already be restricted and the BoR would be unnecessary.

Your interpretation doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you read the 2A with modern language:

"A well-equipped and trained militia is necessary to the security of a free state, therefore the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Understanding that the militia is composed of the people who would bring their own arms, you're reading something into it that's not there. The language is incredibly direct.

As for who is in the militia:

That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act.

ComeGet · Nov 5, 2015

aireyc,

Good point about the states.

What's the source for your quote on who is in the militia?

Blacksmith101 · Nov 5, 2015

Here is an excellent analysis of the meaning of the second amendment:

http://barefootsworld.net/consti11.html#am2

Be certain to note the later additions of commas as noted in the following quote:

It is of great interest to note that in the ensuing years since this Amendment was ratified that commas have been inserted after the words "Militia" and "Arms", providing misconstruction of a very explicit restriction on the legislatures and the government. These commas appear in virtually all presentations of the 2nd Amendment today, including the official NARA presentation, and in no early publication that we have found to date. The correct wording as presented to the States for ratification, and as ratified, is shown in this image of the "True Bill" and also in The Federalist On The New Constitution, 1796, Page 16 showing the first 4 amendments; See the discussion of the first twelve Amendment proposals.

Blacksmith101 · Nov 5, 2015

ComeGet said:
aireyc,

Good point about the states.

What's the source for your quote on who is in the militia?

Not exactly the same quote but here is the section from the U. S. Code:

Title 10 U.S.C. 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Mike · Nov 6, 2015

Good discussion and good points. In my non lawyer opinion, I think all resident persons are the militia. Isn't that what "(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia" above says?

jcutonilli · Nov 6, 2015

ComeGet said:
aireyc,

Good point about the states.

What's the source for your quote on who is in the militia?

The Militia Act of 1792

http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm

jcutonilli · Nov 6, 2015

Mike said:
Good discussion and good points. In my non lawyer opinion, I think all resident persons are the militia. Isn't that what "(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia" above says?

The US Militia is defined differently than the Maryland Militia. The US Militia is not all resident persons, it is all male citizens between 18 and 44. Females need to be part of the National Guard to be considered part of the US Militia. The Maryland Militia does not have any age or sex limitations.

Biggfoot44 · Nov 6, 2015

The 18-44 , not in US Mil or Commisioned in NG language was enacted circa 1900 .

The definition back in 1776 era was much closer to anyone who could physically bear arms.

pcfixer · Nov 7, 2015

Mike said:
Just look at my signature line below.

"[T]he militia is a force to be convened in response to a tyrannical government, not in defense of the nation. ...Such a militia could not possibly exist if the people who were to fill its ranks were not properly armed."

Mike: The signature line path is not longer available. "cannot be found"

Mike · Nov 7, 2015

pcfixer said:
Mike: The signature line path is not longer available. "cannot be found"

Yes, I know. That is mentioned at the end of my sig. line. I believe the liars, cowards and collectivists at msnbc removed it not long after I started using it. What can a person do?

jcutonilli · Nov 7, 2015

Mike said:
Yes, I know. That is mentioned at the end of my sig. line. I believe the liars, cowards and collectivists at msnbc removed it not long after I started using it. What can a person do?

Use the correct link?

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/poll-do-you-think-people-should-be-allowed-carry-guns-public

is different from

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/poll-do-y...ry-guns-public

Mike · Nov 7, 2015

jcutonilli said:
Use the correct link?

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/poll-do-you-think-people-should-be-allowed-carry-guns-public

is different from

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/poll-do-y...ry-guns-public

Fixed. Apparently some type of editing or something rendered my prior URL link inoperable. Thank you, I thought the whole page had been deleted. When I discovered the broken link, I tried to find the text of the post but failed. Now I've located it again, and have the reply number included for anyone who wishes to research the reference from now on.

Interesting 2A TV Interpretation

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