Question on leveling a scope "crosshairs"

c4snipar · Dec 11, 2016

When I was mounting the scope, I leveled the base first, then rifle and last the scope. But, when I look through the scope, the crosshairs are not straight across because the way I am holding the rifle is kind of lean towards to the left.

Now, if I tightened the scope when it's level, it's awkward for me to naturally hold the rifle.

So my question is, should I accommodate the rifle being leveld or align the way that suits me?

Qbeam · Dec 11, 2016

You shouldn't be canting the rifle, it makes scope adjustments a pain due to the offset angle between the scope and rifle.

Q

bbrown · Dec 11, 2016

You'll consistently shoot to point-of-aim better if you hold the rifle in a way that's natural for you, e.g., after recoil you're automatically back on target. IMHO adjust your scope to accommodate you, not vice versa.

My high power instructor, during classroom training with unloaded M1 Garands, would tell us to get in sitting position and aim at a point on the wall. Then he'd smack us on the shoulder, and if the rifle wasn't pointing at the exact same spot on the wall after that then we weren't holding the rifle naturally.

c4snipar · Dec 11, 2016

bbrown said:
You'll consistently shoot to point-of-aim better if you hold the rifle in a way that's natural for you, e.g., after recoil you're automatically back on target. IMHO adjust your scope to accommodate you, not vice versa.

My high power instructor, during classroom training with unloaded M1 Garands, would tell us to get in sitting position and aim at a point on the wall. Then he'd smack us on the shoulder, and if the rifle wasn't pointing at the exact same spot on the wall after that then we weren't holding the rifle naturally.

Good to know. I had mounted a few lower end scopes before with this method. However, this scope and built is significantly more expensive, and I just want to do it right by the book

c4snipar · Dec 11, 2016

Qbeam said:
You shouldn't be canting the rifle, it makes scope adjustments a pain due to the offset angle between the scope and rifle.

Q

But if I am holding my rifle in a way that I normal would, it makes sense to stay that way to maximize accuracy.

Slightly canting the rifle or scope to compensate my natural shooting position/grip, I don't think it's a big issue, right?

Qbeam · Dec 11, 2016

It was explained to me that if the rifle and scope are not level, elevation and windage values would not be accurate due to horizontal and vertical components induced by the canting of the rifle. This is separate from your natural point of aim, which is how you and your rifle should be positioned for proper shooting technique.

I will defer to the experts for a better explanation on the matter.

Q

Mdeng · Dec 11, 2016

What is the maximum range for you with this rifle?

mopar92 · Dec 11, 2016

Two options. For precision long range shooting the rifle base, sxope and reticle should all be as level as possible for the most accurate asjustments. For shooting a durr the rifle and scope being adjusted to you is preferable as you won't necessarily be in a NRA shooting position on a flat range.
Now for the $$$$$ option and best of both worlds you can look at David Tubbs rifle and the stock is adjustable for everything including cant and the buttstock swivels so the rifle fits you and it's vertical and level.

Petar · Dec 11, 2016

I level my rifle hang a plumb bob about 25 yards away and align my scope to the plumb bob string. If you are canting you rifle, this method works great because you can align your crosshair exactly to compensate for it.

1time · Dec 11, 2016

Petar said:
I level my rifle hang a plumb bob about 25 yards away and align my scope to the plumb bob string. If you are canting you rifle, this method works great because you can align your crosshair exactly to compensate for it.

That works well for a fixed distance. If your rifle bore is not perfectly in line with your reticle, a change in distance will not only cause a change in drop but will cause a change in windage.

https://youtu.be/KgWQTXf4SAM

Biggfoot44 · Dec 11, 2016

Just evaluate you target while it is tilted same angle as crosshairs, and adjust accordingly. ( Not a joke.)

Petar · Dec 11, 2016

1time said:
That works well for a fixed distance. If your rifle bore is not perfectly in line with your reticle, a change in distance will not only cause a change in drop but will cause a change in windage.

https://youtu.be/KgWQTXf4SAM

Obviously it is best to keep your rifle level. Once the scope is aligned to string, zero in the scope. Precision will be affected either way you choose to adjust your scope if you are canting your rifle

1time · Dec 11, 2016

Petar said:
Obviously it is best to keep your rifle level. Once the scope is aligned to string, zero in the scope. Precision will be affected either way you choose to adjust your scope if you are canting your rifle

If you mount your scope with the rifle canted you will have the same effect. The bore is already lower than the optic. This must be compensated for. If you are holding the rifle so it feels comfortable and then leveling the scope, the bore will likely be beside the scope also.

Unless you are shooting at the same fixed distance, the scope and the rifle should be level. Otherwise, you will will be dialing windage and drop with every change in distance.

Petar · Dec 11, 2016

1time said:
If you mount your scope with the rifle canted you will have the same effect. The bore is already lower than the optic. This must be compensated for. If you are holding the rifle so it feels comfortable and then leveling the scope, the bore will likely be beside the scope also.

Unless you are shooting at the same fixed distance, the scope and the rifle should be level. Otherwise, you will will be dialing windage and drop with every change in distance.

I am not disagreeing with your statments...

ascorb · Dec 11, 2016

i just had a bubble level on the flat top of the scope and another on the ring and another on the rifle body and aligned them all as best as I could =/

Pinecone · Dec 11, 2016

Qbeam said:
You shouldn't be canting the rifle, it makes scope adjustments a pain due to the offset angle between the scope and rifle.

Q

Wow, Tubbs doesn't know what he is doing then.

Pinecone · Dec 11, 2016

AGE old argument. Go over to Snipers Hide and ask, and watch the fur fly.

IMO, the correct answer is, the scope reticle must be vertical to the WORLD, when YOU are holding your rifle the way you normally do. If you are holding pressure to take out cant, your shots will not be repeatable.

As for the windage change with distance, if your height above bore is 2", and you cant the rifle 10 degrees (which is a huge cant), the center of the scope will be 0.3" from the center of the bore. If you sight in at 100 yards, at 200 yards you will be off the other direction by 0.3". At 1100 yards, you will be off by a whopping 3" of windage. At that distance, for my .308 load, a 1 MPH mistake in your wind call is 13". Can you call consistently to 1 MPH?

And anyway, this is EASY to fix. If you cant the rifle to the left, just sight in at 100 yards to have the POI to be 0.3" to the right. That way, at ALL ranges, it will be 0.3" off the point of aim.

Qbeam · Dec 11, 2016

Pinecone said:
Wow, Tubbs doesn't know what he is doing then.

Pine,

If you see my next post, it clarifies that you can cant if you wish, but the scope should be level with the rifle. Leveling the scope with the cant, induces the added horizontal and vertical components if the same cant angle is not maintained.

Q

outrider58 · Dec 11, 2016

If you can't aim your rifle without a cant, get a set of "windage adjustable" scope rings. They will allow you to offset the cant while keeping the reticle centered to the bore. You'll need to tweak your reticle to your 'new level'.

MRA · Dec 11, 2016

What kind of stock and how much can it be adjusted? Cant can be corrected with stock adjustments.

Question on leveling a scope "crosshairs"

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