Panic Buying HBARS?

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Apr 2, 2019

The State could do that...with probable cause you purchased the firearm after 2013. Outside of probable cause that would constitute a fishing expedition and illegal. But when did that stop the government from at least trying it. When I was in federal law enforcement the Assistant US Attorney would question why the subpoena request and if the answer wasn't sufficient it wouldn't happen. Of course...that means one has an Assistant US or State's Attorney that believes in the law or simply making political points and getting some media coverage.

Such actions by the State would form the basis of lawsuits for exceeding Constitutional authority and placing unwarranted burdens on manufacturers and stores for complying with such fishing expeditions. That also means someone has to suffer arrest or other injury before they can have standing to sue. The State also has nearly unlimited deep pockets where the individual does not.

Muleskinner · Apr 2, 2019

fabsroman said:
Um, why couldn't they just issue a subpoena to the manufacturer of the lower and ask for the manufacture date. After 10/1/2013, you get to go to prison.

The LEO investigating my wife's identity theft issued subpoenas to Victoria Secret, Sam's Club, Verizon, and a couple more corporations in Virginia and they all responded with a crap ton of documents that we received a copy of when we asked for the police report.

Yes, the state must prove that you did not possess the firearm before 10/1/2013, but it might not be as hard to do as you think it is.

This would require them to have the serial number of the lower...unless you allow them to take your rifle how would they get it? They can ask to look at it, you can tell them to get a warrant...unlikely that a judge would issue one...

fabsroman · Apr 2, 2019

Muleskinner said:
This would require them to have the serial number of the lower...unless you allow them to take your rifle how would they get it? They can ask to look at it, you can tell them to get a warrant...unlikely that a judge would issue one...

I am not talking about them asking to see it. What happens if you are involved in an auto accident, the vehicle is totaled, you go to the hospital, and the officer or somebody else empties the trunk of the vehicle? What happens if you are the subject of an ERPO?

Aren't there cases where people open their mouths too much?

Plenty of ways LEO's will run into firearms. Some people will not be brave enough to take non-complying rifles out of the house. Others, will think that there is no possible way that an LEO will ever get his hands on their rifles. Some of us might have rifles removed from our house by ERPO.

Let's just hope that the HBAR bill does not go through and we do not have to worry about this garbage. Then, I can buy the .25-06 I want instead of an HBAR upper.

Abulg1972 · Apr 2, 2019

fabsroman said:
I am not talking about them asking to see it. What happens if you are involved in an auto accident, the vehicle is totaled, you go to the hospital, and the officer or somebody else empties the trunk of the vehicle? What happens if you are the subject of an ERPO?

Aren't there cases where people open their mouths too much?

Plenty of ways LEO's will run into firearms. Some people will not be brave enough to take non-complying rifles out of the house. Others, will think that there is no possible way that an LEO will ever get his hands on their rifles. Some of us might have rifles removed from our house by ERPO.

Let's just hope that the HBAR bill does not go through and we do not have to worry about this garbage. Then, I can buy the .25-06 I want instead of an HBAR upper.

Haven't you basically answered your own question?

First, they'd have to know you have one. These are not regulated firearms, so the State has no record and, if you purchased it in a private sale, neither does the BATFE. Second, they'd have to know that you acquired it after September 30, 2013.

They need a search warrant to search your trunk.

They need a search warrant to search your house.

If you run your mouth, shame on you.

If you take it to the police station for show-and-tell, shame on you.

If you are the subject of an ERPO, well, what can I say?

PowPow · Apr 2, 2019

How's the panic buying of HBARs going? Anyone pick up anything good?

:needpics:

fabsroman · Apr 2, 2019

Abulg1972 said:
Haven't you basically answered your own question?

First, they'd have to know you have one. These are not regulated firearms, so the State has no record and, if you purchased it in a private sale, neither does the BATFE. Second, they'd have to know that you acquired it after September 30, 2013.

They need a search warrant to search your trunk.

They need a search warrant to search your house.

If you run your mouth, shame on you.

If you take it to the police station for show-and-tell, shame on you.

If you are the subject of an ERPO, well, what can I say?

Think the only question I asked was, "Aren't their cases where people run their mouth?" My post was in response to Muleskinner. Wasn't really asking a question.

Chances of being caught for non-compliance aren't high if somebody has a decent head on their shoulders. Problem is that the penalties are pretty high for non-compliance. So, it will come down to a risk/reward analysis for everybody.

What about a "friend", family member, or disgruntled significant other contacting the police and saying that a person owns several banned/illegal items? Does that get an LEO probable cause for a search warrant? Now, there is a question.

fabsroman · Apr 2, 2019

PowPow said:
How's the panic buying of HBARs going? Anyone pick up anything good?

I am wondering how many people are actually panicking over the HBAR bill. Is there a panic?

Muleskinner · Apr 2, 2019

fabsroman said:
I am not talking about them asking to see it. What happens if you are involved in an auto accident, the vehicle is totaled, you go to the hospital, and the officer or somebody else empties the trunk of the vehicle? What happens if you are the subject of an ERPO?

Aren't there cases where people open their mouths too much?

Plenty of ways LEO's will run into firearms. Some people will not be brave enough to take non-complying rifles out of the house. Others, will think that there is no possible way that an LEO will ever get his hands on their rifles. Some of us might have rifles removed from our house by ERPO.

Let's just hope that the HBAR bill does not go through and we do not have to worry about this garbage. Then, I can buy the .25-06 I want instead of an HBAR upper.

If the bill goes through then just take the HBAR off and put on a 300 BO or 6.5 Gr upper and it's no longer an HBAR. use your HBAR upper on an 80% because ALL 80%s were built prior to 10/1/13.

You have to think outside the box if you're going to kowtow to their infringement. Personally I plan to take my rifles to the range and shoot them.."maybe" I will take the upper off while i'm traveling...The bill bans HBARs purchased after 10/1/13 so change the configuration of the rifle so it isn't an HBAR. The bill basically bans the 5.56 HBAR upper. Go buy a stripped multi caliber lower and swap it or build a piston gun or buy a Fightlite SCR lower and put your HBAR upper on it, then it's not even considered an AR......remember who wrote this bill...they know nothing about firearms..

Mark75H · Apr 2, 2019

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:
Though the politicians would think otherwise...it's not up to you to prove any rifle you possess was owned prior to 2013...it's incumbent on the government to prove you didn't. How they would do that would be difficult and likely illegal. They would have to inspect gun store 4473 forms which is not under state purview or try to make you present receipts...maybe even maintain books of serial numbers and production dates. None of that is likely.

The lawmakers don't care about any of that...they probably know such a law would be unenforceable. They want to tell voters they "did" something about crime and that since gun owners didn't comply willingly they need to ban all rather than just some. Never underestimate the gun control forces...even if they know a law in unenforceable and wrong headed they still want it. Once it's obvious to the uninformed public it didn't work they'll build on it and want more and more onerous and unworkable laws. They will never give up.

You can add, they don't care even if they know the law is unconsititutional - they will still pass it and add it to COMAR

Lloyd · Apr 2, 2019

Muleskinner said:
If the bill goes through then just take the HBAR off and put on a 300 BO or 6.5 Gr upper and it's no longer an HBAR. use your HBAR upper on an 80% because ALL 80%s were built prior to 10/1/13.

You have to think outside the box if you're going to kowtow to their infringement. Personally I plan to take my rifles to the range and shoot them.."maybe" I will take the upper off while i'm traveling...The bill bans HBARs purchased after 10/1/13 so change the configuration of the rifle so it isn't an HBAR. The bill basically bans the 5.56 HBAR upper. Go buy a stripped multi caliber lower and swap it or build a piston gun or buy a Fightlite SCR lower and put your HBAR upper on it, then it's not even considered an AR......remember who wrote this bill...they know nothing about firearms..

This is a great post.

fabsroman · Apr 2, 2019

Lloyd said:
This is a great post.

Yeah, except that I don't really agree with everything in his post. Just don't feel like getting into the particulars of it at this time since I have been over it already on here ad nauseam.

Lloyd · Apr 3, 2019

fabsroman said:
Yeah, except that I don't really agree with everything in his post. Just don't feel like getting into the particulars of it at this time since I have been over it already on here ad nauseam.

And I have listened and I totally agree with most of your points, and I only add that I wish this conversation was moved to the WC. But thing that I enjoy the most about is that it is really a foolish endeavor to even attempt to comply. MD has made it so we are really dammed not matter what, so "F" it, let's play their game.

.

davsco · Apr 3, 2019

fabsroman said:
Um, why couldn't they just issue a subpoena to the manufacturer of the lower and ask for the manufacture date. After 10/1/2013, you get to go to prison.

The LEO investigating my wife's identity theft issued subpoenas to Victoria Secret, Sam's Club, Verizon, and a couple more corporations in Virginia and they all responded with a crap ton of documents that we received a copy of when we asked for the police report.

Yes, the state must prove that you did not possess the firearm before 10/1/2013, but it might not be as hard to do as you think it is.

yeah but in your case there was an actual crime they were investigating. when they see an AR-15 sitting around, they have no reason to believe it is illegal and that a crime has actually been committed. if i have $$$ sitting in a bank, can they just start throwing around supboenas to check and see where the $$$ came from (ie drugs etc)? i certainly hope not, but who knows.

2ndltsdad · Apr 3, 2019

and this is why the state put the red flag laws on the books first. anyone can report you and they can and will seize anything they want. your guilty until proven other wise. (not denied ) its all about who will have the bigger bank account and better lawyer to keep what is already yours. the brown shirts are starting to take form.

fabsroman · Apr 8, 2019

So, who panic bought HBARs? Let's see a show of hands.

I might just finish up my Wilson Combat for the heck of it this summer. Could always just use the upper on a pre FSA2013 lower and convert the Wilson Combat lower back to a pistol if something like this ridiculous bill ever passes.

Jimbob2.0 · Apr 8, 2019

fabsroman said:
So, who panic bought HBARs? Let's see a show of hands.

I might just finish up my Wilson Combat for the heck of it this summer. Could always just use the upper on a pre FSA2013 lower and convert the Wilson Combat lower back to a pistol if something like this ridiculous bill ever passes.

I went on a spree 12 months ago but that was only because I came across several really nicely priced 1990s vintage Colt HBARs and a Colt HBAR SOCOM at a great price. If they ban them I have a place for them to go.

fabsroman · Apr 8, 2019

Jimbob2.0 said:
I went on a spree 12 months ago but that was only because I came across several really nicely priced 1990s vintage Colt HBARs and a Colt HBAR SOCOM at a great price. If they ban them I have a place for them to go.

Yeah, cannot say I blame you on that one. If I came across a really nice HBAR barrel for this build, I would buy it in a heartbeat too, HBAR bill or no HBAR bill.

Think I am going to go with a Wilson Combat heavy barrel, handguard, etc. for my build. Will probably use a Hyperfire trigger on it and one of the magpul stocks.

calicojack · Apr 9, 2019

Panic buying? How about celebration buying?

PowPow · Apr 9, 2019

Oh my, they might pass a bill. It's panic time to buy an HBAR! Instead of panic, we've found that the proper reaction is, "Get yourself to Annapolis!"

PowPow · Apr 9, 2019

I'm thinking about celebrating by investing in more "give away" pocket constitutions.

Panic Buying HBARS?

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