NRA Board Member Tom King speaks out against home built firearms/80% lowers

1841DNG · Oct 22, 2019

Glad that I give my money to GPA instead of groups actively advocating against my rights.

jonnyl · Oct 22, 2019

His same argument could literally be made against any firearm or part. It was meant for reason xxx in my mind, but criminals are illegally acquiring them so they should be banned.

Ridiculous.

Bob A · Oct 22, 2019

danb said:
Some actual coverage of this:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/n...association-head-wants-end-to-home-made-guns/

A quote from the comments in the above link:

Green Mtn. Boy says:
October 22, 2019 at 11:07

Their track record is one of entitled infringement since 1934,with supposed friends such as the NRA who needs enemies.

History
1791: The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is ratified.
The amendment reads:

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

After That
1871: The National Rifle Association was formed by Union Army veterans Col. William C. Church
and Gen. George Wingate.

After that, they start going the other way

The NRA actively supported the National Firearms Act of 1934.
The NRA actively supported the Federal Firearms Act of 1938
The NRA actively supported the Gun Control Act of 1968
The NRA actively supported the misnamed Firearms Owners Protection Act including the Hughes Amendment (1986)
The NRA actively supported the final version of the Assault Weapons Ban (1994)
The NRA _proposed_ the bump stock ban
The NRA is actively supporting “Red Flag” laws at the state and federal level.

A link from JPFO (Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership):
http://jpfo.org/articles-assd02/nra-supported-nfa34.htm

No more $$$ from this NRA Life Endowment member.

Most of my nightmare issues are being addressed by Judicial Watch. They're riding HRC's felonious butt, and are all over the Deep State Coup attempt. If that passel of human garbage can be removed from positions of influence, our biggest worries will be over.

Long1MD · Oct 22, 2019

Muleskinner said:
Have you ever purchased 80% components online? I doubt it because the crap you just posted is bull$h*t..parts are invoiced generically, there are no records of what was shipped...when I get a box the packing slip doesn't say "80% lowers" (which would be the only part that would be 80%) the credit card transaction is also generic...I have never seen the words 80% on any of my dozens of orders...

I've been building 80% firearms for several years now and you're just wrong...completely, utterly incorrect...

^^^^^^THIS^^^^

ToolAA · Oct 22, 2019

danb said:
The idea that they cannot find your gun simply because its 80% is mostly internet legend.

If a seller was engaged in illegal activity investing agencies could subpoena or confiscate purchase and or shipping records of the company selling parts, but other than that, there really isn’t an easy way to track a hunk if metal from a nondescript company.

I’m a small business owner. While I don’t sell metal parts, lets assume I did. There is no law that requires me to retain any customer personal information (or even shipping information) for sales of unregulated merchandise. Credit card transactions require specific data but once the transaction clears by law we are only required to keep accounting records, bank statements, ect.

So I could manufacture and sell 80% lowers, call it part number 80L-BLK or whatever I want along with dosens of other innocuous parts. I could run credit card transactions old school with a magnetic card reader and simply enter the bill total in my sales accounting journal. Nobody would know.

Internet retailers often DO record your personal nature. However their transaction data if saved is their property, not some shadow organization. Record keeping is expensive. No big data organization really cares to store our information, “unless” we are willing to pay for that detailed level if record collection and retention.

So in general buy all the 80% lowers you want from small mom and pop shops or gun shows and pay cash if you are paranoid but it really doesn’t matter.

welder516 · Oct 22, 2019

To be honest , the government will "TAX" our rights away for programs and give-a-ways to take our stuff . They want our guns and will do anything to get them .

solarpower44 · Oct 22, 2019

Speed3 said:
I agree they don't...however, the other opinion is that you can have someone build them for the criminals.

Yes I agree that’s possible but unlikely given that black guns from places like Philippine readily available and used black guns can be had for $50... should focus on stopping the flow of illegal guns instead

gtodave · Oct 22, 2019

danb said:
Yes, yes, and you are living in the 20th century don't understand the modern post-911 financial system. If you think the .gov cannot find out simply because your bank statement is non-descript you are dumber than ~~a box of rocks~~ a room full of Bernie Sanders supporters. Easy to track you down as pie. I may know a thing or three about what I am talking about. For you, I dont even need your bank statements or shipment info, I have every post on every forum you've ever made on a cloud server forever. Bragging about how many 80% lowers you have on the internet... You are practically the easiest to track down.

In 1968 or 1996 there was a big difference between a dealer record and some other sort of financial or social media record. In the 21st century with all the Big Data held by banks, google, Amazon, and facebook, not so much.

Sure, bury them and hope when they come they dont have metal detectors.

Just keep in mind the second you go to use them you are toast.

Yup...online footprint will out many. However, if .gov actually starts knocking down doors based on online sales, I think there will be enough resistance to prevent long term searches

Docster · Oct 23, 2019

I said goodbye to the NRA several years back. This is another reason I haven't regretted that decision.

W2D · Oct 23, 2019

gtodave said:
Yup...online footprint will out many. However, if .gov actually starts knocking down doors based on online sales, I think there will be enough resistance to prevent long term searches

Sounds like Powder Raids c. 1775.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

danb · Oct 23, 2019

nah, people dont care about their privacy until its violated (too late in the game), and its mostly already too late to stop the invasion.

Biggfoot44 · Oct 23, 2019

That will be when the tin foil nutjobs will get to say " Told Ya So ! " .

PowPow · Oct 25, 2019

danb said:
People who think that they cannot find you simply because you have an 80% are fooling themselves. Credit card companies and banks track every purchase, and thanks to 9-11 they are deeply embedded in "suspicious activity" monitoring. That barrel or upper, muzzle device, trigger, stock, and ammo are all on record as purchases. They can simply pull up a search on anything related to firearms you might have bought, thanks to Big Data. Easy Peasy, game over. Of course a lot of people with 80% around here also have suppressors, lol. So they know about you. Of course, you also cannot use an illegal weapon in self defense without risking going to jail yourself.

The idea that they cannot find your gun simply because its 80% is mostly internet legend.

danb said:
If you live your entire "firearms life" in cash, perhaps. That includes everything paying cash for everything firearms related. Also turn off your phone before you leave for the FFL/gun show. And don't have any of those 80% or parts or ammo shipped to your house, there is a record of that too.

I feel 100% confident I could identify the address of 99.5% of gun owners in Maryland with a simple program accessing bank and GPS/shipment data.

And also, even easier, internet forum posts, lololololol...

danb said:
Yes, yes, and you are living in the 20th century don't understand the modern post-911 financial system. If you think the .gov cannot find out simply because your bank statement is non-descript you are dumber than ~~a box of rocks~~ a room full of Bernie Sanders supporters. Easy to track you down as pie. I may know a thing or three about what I am talking about. For you, I dont even need your bank statements or shipment info, I have every post on every forum you've ever made on a cloud server forever. Bragging about how many 80% lowers you have on the internet... You are practically the easiest to track down.

In 1968 or 1996 there was a big difference between a dealer record and some other sort of financial or social media record. In the 21st century with all the Big Data held by banks, google, Amazon, and facebook, not so much.

Sure, bury them and hope when they come they dont have metal detectors.

Just keep in mind the second you go to use them you are toast.

As much as I think we would all like to disagree, Dan is correct. He didn't even scratch the surface in his posts above.

The average person will shudder at home much tracking, data collection, data warehousing, and analytics are being performed on our actions and movement: by our own government, by foreign governments, and by private interests. I'm not sure this problem can be legislated away. The EU has tried. Good luck with that. The only thing that might reset this state of affairs is a few strong EMPs.

GuitarmanNick · Oct 25, 2019

The NRA sold us all out many years ago. With our Second Amendment which our founders found necessary to insure our protection from the tyrannical leaders they knew would one day seek power, no restrictions should have ever been considered reasonable including the ban on automatic weapons!

LaddyBoy · Oct 30, 2019

'mr. king' must make a loud sound such as "Heee-HaWWW, Heee-Hawww! I am the NRA and I approve of LEGAL LAW ABIDING Americans who can make and assemble their own inanimate objects.

Alan3413 · Oct 30, 2019

danb said:
If you live your entire "firearms life" in cash, perhaps. That includes everything paying cash for everything firearms related. Also turn off your phone before you leave for the FFL/gun show. And don't have any of those 80% or parts or ammo shipped to your house, there is a record of that too.

I feel 100% confident I could identify the address of 99.5% of gun owners in Maryland with a simple program accessing bank and GPS/shipment data.

And also, even easier, internet forum posts, lololololol...

Unfortunately for me, I lost everything in the Bay.

I'm not convinced the gov is omnipotent.

New Zeland has a gun buyback law, yet they're still having trouble recovering a fraction of the weapons out there. They don't even know how many there are to begin with.

Docster · Oct 30, 2019

Alan3413 said:
Unfortunately for me, I lost everything in the Bay.

I'm not convinced the gov is omnipotent.

New Zeland has a gun buyback law, yet they're still having trouble recovering a fraction of the weapons out there. They don't even know how many there are to begin with.

I agree. Yes, all of our data may be somewhere in "the Cloud" or scattered among 3-letter government agencies but look at our government now-- hopelessly entangled in a national political mess and getting absolutely nothing accomplished because many don't like the personality of the President. To think that same body could put together a grand scheme to determine all gun owners and every gun they own/built with any accuracy at all just demolishes my rational thought processes and knowledge of U.S. History.
I take a Grey Man and Prepper's approach in everything gun related but otherwise am not too anxious about things going on in a few delineated parts of the country.
FWIW, we've seen countless times in our history that for every way made restrict citizens rights, there's ways to defeat those attempts.

danb · Oct 30, 2019

Docster said:
I agree. Yes, all of our data may be somewhere in "the Cloud" or scattered among 3-letter government agencies but look at our government now-- hopelessly entangled in a national political mess and getting absolutely nothing accomplished because many don't like the personality of the President. To think that same body could put together a grand scheme to determine all gun owners and every gun they own/built with any accuracy at all just demolishes my rational thought processes and knowledge of U.S. History.
I take a Grey Man and Prepper's approach in everything gun related but otherwise am not too anxious about things going on in a few delineated parts of the country.
FWIW, we've seen countless times in our history that for every way made restrict citizens rights, there's ways to defeat those attempts.

Yes, govt incompetence is your friend.

But dont make it easy by giving up your right to remain silent, on the internet, about how many 80% lowers you've done.

MigraineMan · Oct 30, 2019

danb said:
But dont make it easy by giving up your right to remain silent, on the internet, about how many 80% lowers you've done.

For the record, that would be "none."

(Big shout-out to the G-men reviewing this sweet and innocent post ... go get some terrorists!)

clint west · Oct 31, 2019

govt + big data = they know you bought it

danb said:
The idea that they cannot find your gun simply because its 80% is mostly internet legend.

There is knowing you bought something, and then there is finding it.

how long will they waterboard me based on a 10 yr old purchase of a striker spring or because I viewed a video on replacing sights?

Nobody stores their confiscatables with their nonconfiscatables do they?

NRA Board Member Tom King speaks out against home built firearms/80% lowers

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