about to pull the trigger on a dillon

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  • Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,561
    Harford County, Maryland
    I've used a scale for 32 of 33 loading years. I used my OHaus mechanical scale for a couple decades then got a Pact electronic. It is fast, accurate and precise. The mechanical scale has its 'wiggle time' even with the magnetic dampner. With the Pact there is very little of that. I can weigh 6 bullets on the Pact elecrtonic in the amount of time it takes to do one on the OHaus. When building precision loads that is a considerable amount if time. My experience, I couldn't see myself going to only having a mechanical scale unless circumstances got real bad. But I do insist one having a mechanical scale - batteries don't die and no electronics to fail.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    And they don't go out of calibration, don't drift as they warm up.

    LOTS of reasons to have a mechanical scale.

    If I had to have only 1, it would be a mechanical.
     

    mark1070

    Member
    Nov 13, 2010
    376
    south of Annapolis
    I'm also new to reloading. I recently realized that the powder mechanisms built into all the progressive presses measure the charge by volume, not by weight (in units of grains). The point is that, using volume measure, there will always be slight variation in any given number of samples. Are there any presses out there that actually measure grains? Naturally, the expected tradeoff would be accuracy versus speed.

    Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    I'm also new to reloading. I recently realized that the powder mechanisms built into all the progressive presses measure the charge by volume, not by weight (in units of grains). The point is that, using volume measure, there will always be slight variation in any given number of samples. Are there any presses out there that actually measure grains? Naturally, the expected tradeoff would be accuracy versus speed.

    Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk

    The variations are generally within .2 grains on either side of where you set it. When you are producing volume ammo, you aren't going to get super match grade loads on a progressive. If you want super match grade loads, you will have to use a single stage or run your progressive as a single stage press. If you are that concerned about the powder charges, you can always use an RCBS Chargemaster combo, then dump the charges into the cases, before seating the bullet.
     

    Traveler

    Lighten up Francis
    Jan 18, 2013
    8,227
    AA County
    My Dillon powder dispenser is amazingly accurate. I weight every ten to twenty charges with a mechanical scale. It is remarkably consistent with ball powders in my 223, 9mm, and 45. Stick powders are the nemesis of these dispensers. I use a powder scoop and trickler with Varget in my 30-06.
     

    mark1070

    Member
    Nov 13, 2010
    376
    south of Annapolis
    The variations are generally within .2 grains on either side of where you set it

    Good data point. Thanks. I recently read that a 1 grain variance for 308s equates roughly to 80 fps variance. If accurate, .2 could equate up to 15 fps variance. Any idea how much this could affect groupings?

    If you want super match grade loads, you will have to use a single stage or run your progressive as a single stage press.

    Knowing I can use a Dillon as a single stage helps.

    Stick powders are the nemesis of these dispensers

    Good information. Thanks. Little freakin' cylindrical terds screwing up the volume and such.

    Then again, seems to me there's a market for the better mousetrap, eh? Maybe I'll start working on a solution.



    BTW - This thread is the most helpful 'getting started with equipment thread' that I've come across on the entire internet.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,561
    Harford County, Maryland
    Put it this way, single digit standard deviation is tight. Considering the group will shoot on both sides of the mean, you are looking at an extreme spread of 18 fps, assuming the shoot strings don't go into the second deviations (which is statistically virtually improbable). An extreme spread of 15 fps is not much to lose sleep over in typical firearms and many accuracy based heavy barrel sniper/varmiter type guns.

    This is my experience with accurate guns. For long range national and world class shooting with appropriate guns, someone like Ed Shell can tell you more and more explicitly. His posts are always a very good read.
     
    Last edited:

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    All mechanical powder measures measure by volume.

    How accurate they are, depends on the powder. A flake or ball powder can be VERY accurate by volume. Typically I see less than 0.1 grain variations.

    Extruded powders are less accurate as the granules pack into the measuring chamber differently and some granules are sheared when the measure closes.

    If you want super accurate powder charges, you have to weigh every charge. Easy way is to get a product like the RCBS Chargemaster which dispenses the powder onto a digital scale and gives you +/- 0.05 grain accuracy. But that is a $300 product, and it takes 20 - 30 seconds to dispense each charge. You can also throw a light charge into the pan, and trickle to the proper weight, but that is a PITA if doing a lot of loading.

    Kind of defeats the use a progressive press. :)

    But if you want to go this route, call Dillon and get an AT500 powder funnel. This fits the powder die and lets you pour the measured charge into the case on the Dillon.
     

    guthook

    Grrr.
    Apr 7, 2008
    7,056
    St. Mary's
    All mechanical powder measures measure by volume.

    How accurate they are, depends on the powder. A flake or ball powder can be VERY accurate by volume. Typically I see less than 0.1 grain variations.

    Extruded powders are less accurate as the granules pack into the measuring chamber differently and some granules are sheared when the measure closes.

    If you want super accurate powder charges, you have to weigh every charge. Easy way is to get a product like the RCBS Chargemaster which dispenses the powder onto a digital scale and gives you +/- 0.05 grain accuracy. But that is a $300 product, and it takes 20 - 30 seconds to dispense each charge. You can also throw a light charge into the pan, and trickle to the proper weight, but that is a PITA if doing a lot of loading.

    Kind of defeats the use a progressive press. :)

    But if you want to go this route, call Dillon and get an AT500 powder funnel. This fits the powder die and lets you pour the measured charge into the case on the Dillon.

    I just made my own a few weeks ago. Thought I was brilliant. Now I see it's been done before. :o Oh well, back to being dumb.
     

    BigDaddy

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 7, 2014
    2,235
    Question on accessories I see on Ebay. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a 550B.

    Bearing kits, I gather they are supposed to make the rotation of the shellplates smoother to minimize powder spillage. Are they really needed?

    Powder bar knobs and micrometers. A micrometer makes sense, to someone who has never used a Dillon. I realize there is an option to have a complete tool head ready to go with powder measure and the works. But suppose you load 2 different bullet weights. Do you guys stock separate powder bars, or use the micrometer or monkey with a knob?

    Thanks in advance
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,644
    MoCo
    I have multiple powder bars. They are cheap. I write on them: XX.Xgr YYYY powder. A quick double check at startup and you are good to go. I also have multiple heads complete w/ powder dispenser for the favorite powders - so I don't have to unload one.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    I also have multiple powder bars. I paint the end white, then write on them with a Sharpie.

    As for the bearing, they are not, but do have some issues. I have one on my 650 now, not sure if it will stay on. I would run without it, and see if you think you need it.
     

    mike_in_md

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 13, 2008
    2,282
    Howard County
    I have a 550.. Now I want a 650..

    Keep them both. 550 on the left and 650 on the right.

    image_163317.jpg
     

    mike_in_md

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 13, 2008
    2,282
    Howard County
    What do you reload with the 550? I was thinking about keeping the 550 for 45-70 or .308....but want the 650 for 9mm and 5.56..

    Because I installed the case feeder for the 550 it can no longer be used for rifle. It's dedicate for 9mm, 38, and 357. The 550 case feeding system feeds the case to the shell plate when the shell plate is about halfway up to the dies. Note: It is possible with some tinkering to make the 550 with a case feeder work with 5.56, but it would never work with 308 unless you want to partially take apart the case feeder and try and fit your fingers in a tight spot to feed manually.

    I mainly load 45 ACP on the 650, but also use it for 223 and 30-06. A case feeder on a 650 works great with both pistol and rifle cases because the cases feed to the shell plate when the shell plate is all the way down.

    If you still want to use the 550 for rifle my recommendation is to not install a case feeder on it. It takes about an hour or more to convert between a case feeding system and the regular non case feeder, so it's NOT practical. For me it was worth it and dedicate it to pistol.

    So you want to reload 5.56???get a 1050. It has a primer swager built in to get rid of those pesky military crimps fast.
     

    Virgil Co.C

    Active Member
    Aug 10, 2018
    615
    Mannnn , I want one I shall have one I am dreaming about one . Never reloaded but Dillon seems to be the brand to get and now after reading all the post it has only cemented my decision. A lot of money though , thinking at least 12/ 13 hundred to start pulling a handle. That’s everything. Would go with square b but I want the option to do rifle because I know me once i dart.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Mannnn , I want one I shall have one I am dreaming about one . Never reloaded but Dillon seems to be the brand to get and now after reading all the post it has only cemented my decision. A lot of money though , thinking at least 12/ 13 hundred to start pulling a handle. That’s everything. Would go with square b but I want the option to do rifle because I know me once i dart.
    Where are you located?
     

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