PCC Sub Gun Omnibus Thread

Is that a new model Linda? I ask because back in the eighties I shot one that was wood and steel and didn't look like yours.

John from MD said:

Is that a new model Linda? I ask because back in the eighties I shot one that was wood and steel and didn't look like yours.

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Yeah, It's the new model. The Tri-rail handguard is old stock (out if production). Kind of rare these days. In fact, I had to install LaRue Tactical rail covers because the spacing is different than Picatinny.

Lindas are banned assault pistols in this state, alas. Only way to get one is if someone out of state wills one to you, IIRC.

I played around with the Angstadt Arms roller-partially-locked PCC at SHOT, and that thing is sweet. Quite a number of smart design features. Unfortunately, it's priced so high that I think the CMMG 9mm Banshee and Sig MPX PCC basically eat its lunch. The sales pitch I saw at SHOT was basically selling it as a replacement for LE MP5s. If they could somehow halve the pricing, I think it would be a serious competitor.

everyone have a favorite barrel length for the 9mm pistols/rifles ?

Jollyllama said:

I’ll introduce myself at the next shoot if I see you.

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Hey, I almost forgot to say how nice it was to meet you at that match. Every time it's another phantom MDS face turned into a real person - great!

rockstarr said:

everyone have a favorite barrel length for the 9mm pistols/rifles ?

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There's two schools of thought on this.

Some people want longer barrels to get a little more PF and cycling reliability out of their ammo. Depending on your operating system, this may be a very real concern, especially with heavy buffers.

There are others who DO NOT want that, and thus run very short barrels (4-5"). One recent trend in competitive PCC has been to run very short barrels with long shrouds so that they can run a long handguard while still retaining that short barrel with less recoil (and not running afoul of SBR laws).

https://taccom3g.com/product/taccom-ar15-ulw-9mm-pcc-ramped-barrel/

Obviously, if you just want to do some sort of shorty subgun-alike, you could just skip the shroud.

ETA: I run a 14.5" JP Supermatch on my PCC, purely because I got it and a JP comp cheap. If you reload, MAKE sure you find a barrel vendor who is properly throating for longer reloads, otherwise you will find yourself stupidly constrained in OAL limits.

Picked this up from the good folks at 2A the other night. I went in for paperwork on a pistol but had been wanting to get a basic PCC for a while so I got this too. I'm 90% sure I'm putting a Holosun 510C on it, just reading some more reviews around the web before deciding.

I love the fact that they are ambidextrous - it took about 10 minutes to swap the charging handle and mag release (and replace the Ruger magwell with the included Glock conversion).

Fun fact: the most-used optic at USPSA PCC Nationals this year was... the Holosun HS510C. Another fun fact: 5% of _Open_ shooters used the 510C.

Finally finished mine. Existing lower that I had a .22 upper on. Installed a Geissele B-GRF trigger.
CMMG 16” radial delayed blowback barrel/bolt
Uses the CMMG AR9 conversión mags
VG6 Precision Gamma brake
15” BCM KMR Alpha rail
Threw my Bushnell TRS-25 red dot on it just to function test and zero (this will be replaced most likely by a Holosun HS510

Put about 120 rounds through it in short order.
Slow fire, rapid fire, double taps. Worked flawlessly.




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I can't stand Sig Sauer, mostly because their QC SUCKS.... But the MPX is a real winner. My friend shoots the piss out of his with nary a proper cleaning. The thing just runs and is very accurate with very low recoil. Major downside is 30rd magazines are like $65 each.

SkiPatrolDude said:

I can't stand Sig Sauer, mostly because their QC SUCKS.... But the MPX is a real winner. My friend shoots the piss out of his with nary a proper cleaning. The thing just runs and is very accurate with very low recoil. Major downside is 30rd magazines are like $65 each.

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I've heard the exact opposite - that it's really finicky w/lots of malfunction issues if not heavily maintained. I dunno..

SkiPatrolDude said:

I can't stand Sig Sauer, mostly because their QC SUCKS.... But the MPX is a real winner. My friend shoots the piss out of his with nary a proper cleaning. The thing just runs and is very accurate with very low recoil. Major downside is 30rd magazines are like $65 each.

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They are indeed expensive (albeit you can find them $45-$55 if you look). However, the thing to be said for factory MPX mags is that it's not a guessing game if they'll work - they are reliable and durable.

Funny thing is, even with all that good press, Sig really cut the line back this year - there's only three variants now. Plus side, the three they have left include the only two that really mattered... the MPX K and the MPX PCC. In particular, the new PCC competition variant is now the hotness for a lot of PCC guys:
https://www.sigsauer.com/store/sig-mpx-pcc.html

erwos said:

They are indeed expensive (albeit you can find them $45-$55 if you look). However, the thing to be said for factory MPX mags is that it's not a guessing game if they'll work - they are reliable and durable.

Funny thing is, even with all that good press, Sig really cut the line back this year - there's only three variants now. Plus side, the three they have left include the only two that really mattered... the MPX K and the MPX PCC. In particular, the new PCC competition variant is now the hotness for a lot of PCC guys:
https://www.sigsauer.com/store/sig-mpx-pcc.html

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yeah, ive been staring one down for a while. 1,600 dollars for the 16 inch rifle is ALOT for what it is though. Pistols are the same price for the most part.

I really want one of those or a jp gmr 15, but damn, that ones almost 1800 and you don't even get ambi controls, you have to option them. I try but cant bring myself to justify an 1,800 dollar 9mm rifle not having iron sights, ambi controls, and a milspecish trigger.

Of the 2, the sig would seem to be the better buy on paper. At least its full ambi, with a decent trigger.

teratos said:

PTR-9
CMMG Guard


Delayed blowback is a game changer for PCCs. I would not even consider getting a direct blowback at this point.

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How do you get the 29” oal? Or is it preban?

im expecting we will see some Stribog reviews in here soon

I haven’t been able to thoroughly test the Bog out yet, but I have fired it and am thoroughly impressed so far.

I have built a couple ar9mm in the past. It was more expensive than the Bog although prices have come down quite a bit as they gained popularity.
My 9mm AR used a Q 9oz heavy buffer and standard carbine spring. I then used a specific 9mm spring with the same buffer but didn’t notice much different. I also tested and used multiple other buffer and spring combinations.

The Bog has a little better recoil impulse IMO. It isn’t as harsh, a little less snappy maybe is a way to describe it. The Bog mags being proprietary is a little bit of a turn off to me, I also wish they had steel feed lips. However they do seem to be build pretty durably. Time will tell. They load easier than a Colt or Glock bag since they are true double stack double feed. I wish the Bog took glock mags, this looks to be a future option but it is what it is and it is fine since the mags aren’t too expensive.

Threading on the Bog muzzle is longer than other 9mm threading and will require either a good spacer or a device made for it. In Lead We Trust has 3-lug mounts available and asks you to specify if they are for the Bog due to the threading. Mine still has a very small gap between the shoulder and the mount, but functions fine. I will contact ILWT and see what they say. I am using a Rugged 3-Lug 9mm system on a sico octane 45 can. It all works great together. Nice lockup.

The Bog is quieter suppressed than the AR9mm were. It seems to have a pretty hefty spring that can be felt when charging it. The BCG is also heavy. I haven’t weighed them for comparison and probably won’t but the Bog is slightly quieter from less port pop best I can tell. I ran some S&B 150gr. Through it with the can with no issues so far.

My 9mm ARs were 100% reliable over many more rounds than I have put through the Bog yet, so we will see how that plays out. Bog stock sights are plastic and feel chintzy. I wish they were metal and imagine there will be companies making them if they haven’t already. They are functional but I am guessing most people will run an optic. The sights cowitness at the very bottom of the sig Romeo 5 I am using. The very bottom as in the whole larger circle on the front sight is obscured slightly by the optic.
You will want to run a low mount optic on these as the receiver is taller than a 9mm AR.

I haven’t done any reliability testing or accuracy testing yet to report.

I have a ruger PCC that is have found to be pretty accurate with 124gr loads. It has a barrel twice as long, but is also slightly louder to my ear with the suppressor, again port pop. With supersonic ammo and unsuppressed the ruger is quieter, but this hardly matters. I have had 147gr go trans/ supersonic out of the ruger, but have not had this with the Bog yet. It did happen with a batch of HST 147gr out of a 10.5” 9mm AR as well but I suspect it was loaded a little hotter or gained velocity from the additional barrel length.

Bog trigger isn’t bad, isn’t good. It stacks a little, but has a very short pull and reset. It’s like a 6 or little more Lb mil-spec trigger that has a shorter overall pull and is slightly crisper. Not as good as an ALG trigger. The trigger is made of metal but it has a plastic feel when released similar to a Glock in some ways, but I don’t understand why since it is basically an AR trigger.
It’s not a top priority to replace it at any rate, but it has crossed my mind next time geissele has a sale. Research looks like it requires some minimal modifications to do that aren’t difficult.

I like the ambi bolt and mag releases. Outside of the charging handle it is all ambi, but you can put it on either side. The safety lever is a little short and slightly flatter than I would like on each side, but the same length on both sides. It is plastic which I don’t like.

I can report back more if there is interest and I have more round through it.

Stripping it is easy; one pin in the back like an AR and then pop the retaining piece out by sliding it downward slightly. The stock one is plastic. The mount on the SB tactical brace I got is aluminum.

Overall it is a cool nice handling little pistol. Interested in seeing how reliable it is. I broke my own rule and pulled it out of the box and fired it without stripping it and cleaning it. I have added some additional lube since that first test and it feels a little smoother.

For the money I think it is well make with quality parts. The design isn’t perfect or as modular as i would like; I can’t swap the grip on it as it is molded to the lower, but the grip is ok. It’s slimmer than a magpul MOE grip but otherwise it is similarly shaped. No in handle storage compartment.

Let me know if you have questions. There is one (last one) available at Baltimore’s best pawn. I’m glad I bought it.

TL;DR: works perfectly with round nose ammo. Constant failures to feed with American Eagle 147gr flat nose. Round nose subsonic, no issues. Need to test HP ammos. Accurate gun with all ammo tested shooting half-dollar ragged holes at 35yds with red dot.

Put 377 rounds total through it both suppressed and Un-suppressed.

Was not able to get to the range due to a sick kid, but did get outside a bit to test the Bog. I’ll try and be brief.

Cleaned and lubed, lightly lubed mags with super lube Teflon lube (per issues discussed in MAC video).

Sighted in with red dot at 35 yds using 147gr American Eagle. Shoots one ragged half dollar hole. Gun is very accurate. Also very quiet with this ammo.

Downside is that it doesn’t like AE 147gr and I only got through 1 whole mag without any issues. Most mags had failures to feed every few rounds with this ammo. I have seen it documented elsewhere that it doesn’t like flat pointed ammo on a gun to gun basis. More testing to be done with HP ammo.

No issues with 150gr, Sellier and Bellot ammo, 115 federal, 115 gr Ae. Runs flawless with anything with a round nose. More testing to be done.

All FTF were bullet angled upwards with the bolt unable to close. Bullet tip stuck to top of barrel. No pics, sorry. All required removing the magazine and racking the bolt.

Considered this could be a mag issue or a cleaning issue so stripped and cleaned/ lubed again with Mobile 1. Isolated mags and numbered them. Changed ammo. FTF only occurred with AE 147gr, same jam every time. No issues with any other ammo tested. Suppressed status had no reliability impact.

POI changes quite a bit between 115 and 147gr at 30-35 yds. However gun is very consistently accurate with all ammo tested so far getting good hits out to 70 yds (max at my house). As long as you zero for ammo you are using, this was a surprisingly accurate pistol.

Small size of pistol with brace is nice in that it is compact with brace folded. However during firing strings I wish there was a bit more hand guard real estate. I found myself grabbing the barrel which was fine until it warmed up. If I pulled it in tight and shot, it was easy to shoot quickly and transition between the targets I had set up. Still a small gun to hang on to, so pros and cons. I’m a bit over 6’ and 215lbs so YMMV.

Trigger got a little (not much) lighter. Still very short pull which takes a little getting used to.

I will be testing gold dots and HST for function. Right now it is strictly a range toy, which is fine, but I’d like to see reliability out of it with my SD ammo of choice and compatibility with subsonic HPs.

Low mount sig Romeo pairs perfectly with it.

In Lead We Trust 3-lug muzzle adapter performed well with no issues. Rugged 3-Lug mount on sico octane 45 works well and is a good tight lock up but easy to remove.

This is my first foray into using 3-lug mounts and I like them a lot.

Sure I missed something, happy to answer questions about this PCC.. or uh pistol caliber pistol.

Now that it's looking like the proposed MD AWB expansion is DOA and I don't need to blow through a ton of cash all the sudden, I have been thinking about upgrading my AR-9 PCC to the Taccom ESSB/DBRS magnetically delayed blowback system. I am skeptical it's as good as RDB or the MPX's piston system, but any advantage in terms of keeping that dot steady during recoil seems like a good thing.

erwos said:

Now that it's looking like the proposed MD AWB expansion is DOA and I don't need to blow through a ton of cash all the sudden, I have been thinking about upgrading my AR-9 PCC to the Taccom ESSB/DBRS magnetically delayed blowback system. I am skeptical it's as good as RDB or the MPX's piston system, but any advantage in terms of keeping that dot steady during recoil seems like a good thing.

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I wonder what happens if you use the RDB with the magnetically delayed system?

teratos said:

I wonder what happens if you use the RDB with the magnetically delayed system?

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Probably wouldn't cycle reliably across most loads. Might be a more interesting thing to try with 40S&W and 10mm ARs, where you've got a lot more energy in play.