Questions Regarding Transporting Firearms In Car

swinokur · Nov 2, 2018

I see what you’re saying in part 2 but the problem seems to me in part 1 would arise if you are not going to an allowed exception while still in MD an you get stopped. As far as MD is concerned you are not engaged in an allowed exception under 4-203 because Interstate travel is not an allowed exception. I’m not going to lie to a LEO while on travel out of the state just to try to comply with 4-203

I thought the AG inferred in his opinion that if FOPA did not apply to a trip starting and stopping in MD,then any exception to that in origin or destination in or out of state, would mean FOPA would apply. But IANAL

Maybe Esqappellate can weigh in

jonnyl · Nov 2, 2018

swinokur said:
I see what you’re saying in part 2 but the problem seems to me in part 1 would arise if you are not going to an allowed exception while still in MD an you get stopped. As far as MD is concerned you are not engaged in an allowed exception under 4-203 because Interstate travel is not an allowed exception. I’m not going to lie to a LEO while on travel out of the state just to try to comply with 4-203

I thought the AG inferred in his opinion that if FOPA did not apply to a trip starting and stopping in and, then any exception to that would mean FOPA would apply. But IANAL

Maybe Esqappellate can weigh in

Definitely agree if you're not under one of the allowed exceptions you're off the reservation. :thumbsup:

swinokur · Nov 2, 2018

And the problem becomes how do you get out of MD without being in violation of 4-203?

The AG advised no prior case law so get an attorney

That’s why having FOPA travel documents might help in an affirmative defense

jonnyl · Nov 2, 2018

swinokur said:
And the problem becomes how do you get out of MD without being in violation of 4-203?

The AG advised no prior case law so get an attorney

That’s why having FOPA travel documents might help in an affirmative defense

But he was talking about someone not travelling under a 4-203 exception. I believe the question that has no case law is whether the FOPA statement of "place you can legally possess and carry" refers to Maryland the state or my house. If it's the broader state, he's saying that I can only carry if it's one of the exceptions, which would make my ability to use FOPA starting or ending in MD dependent on 4-203.

If it's my house where I can legally possess and carry, then I would be able to travel under FOPA to VA to CCW. That seems gray for sure.

But I think if you're under one of the exceptions transporting under MD law it applies every second you're in the state and there's no issue getting across the border.

swinokur · Nov 2, 2018

But what if you are not traveling under one of the exceptions, how do you legally travel out of the state? There is no argument if you’re under one of the allowed exceptions.

What if you are not but simply traveling out of state?

swinokur · Nov 2, 2018

There was an earlier AG opinion I have to find where AG Bowen stated that FOPA can’t be used in MD because MD law does not allow carry and possess that FOPA requires. IIRC Esqappellat said the opinion was wrong because you can carry and possess in your home.

I’ll try to find it

jonnyl · Nov 2, 2018

swinokur said:
But what if you are not traveling under one of the exceptions, how do you legally travel out of the state? There is no argument if you’re under one of the allowed exceptions.

What if you are not but simply traveling out of state?

I'm with you on that 100%. It's gray, and I think would depend on what "place" means. Which as you pointed out hasn't been defined by any case law. I'm not bucking to be it either

Folks above were referencing FOPA when going to the range in VA. I was just saying I don't think the 4-203 exceptions are required to be in state.

Never hurts to overkill it, I just like to understand the nuances where possible in this ridiculous state.

swinokur · Nov 2, 2018

Agree . 4-203 makes no stipulation on the location of the allowed activity. Only that you he engaged in it.

The issue arises when you are not and traveling out of MD

Pinecone · Nov 3, 2018

If I am going to VA overnight, I am going to a temporary residence. I feel that would be a legitimate 4-203 transport.

Problem would be drive over in the morning to carry during the day and come back that evening.

ironpony · Nov 3, 2018

4-203 does what most every other MD law does ... confuse the common citizen.

Light turns red, officer stops to wait for light, 3 cars in front of me turn right without stopping, I “stop” before turning and look over to see the officer texting, I get pulled over for suspicious activity.

No offense meant to LEOs.

moose&squirrel · Nov 4, 2018

Crikey! I keep my firearms, rifles or handguns, unloaded in their bags and the ammo/mags in a range bag, and all of the above locked in the hard cover bed of my pick-me-up truck, while driving to a range here in Maryland or to private property over in Virginia. In other words, I have no way to get to the firearms or rounds while driving or even stopping without getting out of the truck. I assume this is "A-OK."

swinokur · Nov 4, 2018

You’re good

ras_oscar · Apr 3, 2019

Pinecone said:
If I am going to VA overnight, I am going to a temporary residence. I feel that would be a legitimate 4-203 transport.

Problem would be drive over in the morning to carry during the day and come back that evening.

Granted, but say you get a Terry stop in MD before you leave the state. It's now your responsibility to prove your intended destination to the officer. Having a written range reservation in VA solves both problems because it's also a valid MD destination. I'm not saying MD field officers at eager to find a firearms violation. I'm saying that in MD officers appear to be indoctrinated to not make " mistakes" with regard to firearms. I suspect they are not routinely encountered in a legal condition. Gun menas criminal until proven otherwise. For them, IMHO better safe than sorry means handcuffs and confiscation until someone above them can " sort it out".

You may beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.

swinokur · Apr 3, 2019

I go to the NRA range. They don’t give out written reservations that I am aware of

If you transport under FOPA and don’t answer questions there is no PC that would allow a search even with a Terry stop that I can think of.

IANAL

Questions Regarding Transporting Firearms In Car

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