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Old February 21st, 2019, 06:37 PM #51
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Originally Posted by Occam View Post
I would bet a box of ammo that it wasn't what you said, but how you said it, and probably multiple times.
Anyone remember Mudskipper?
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Old February 22nd, 2019, 01:09 AM #52
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Hillary Clinton got 65,844,610 votes. Most of those were white, not black, and likewise most of the people trying to take away our Second Amendment rights are also white, not black. This is a liberal vs. conservative argument, nothing more. Skin color is like hair color - you're born with whatever you're born with. However being a liberal, fighting against the fundamental right of civil defense, being a totalitarian at heart if not in actuality, is behavioral. .... Of all people, we should be the ones who are most color blind.
Look your first statement is not per capita and that matters. But the rest, I agree with. IN fact while a more Hispanics and African Americans do vote Democrat than white Americans, those Hispanics and African Americans are least loyal to the Democrat party, least left wing of Democrat voters, and thee most likely to change over to the GOP in certain circumstances. The data show it is white women who will not detach form voting Democrat and who are most stridently left.

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Your post is overly simplistic. Yes, it's true that there are plenty of white liberals, but previously conservative states like California and Virginia are now liberal solely because of non-white immigration. This isn't a point of debate.
That is true. Recent arrival immigrants are a huge electoral boon to Democrat party. but as I point out above and below they are also least loyal to it.

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You're right, the debate isn't simplistic. Florida (the state under discussion in the OP) was also inundated by "non-white" immigration ... twice. Those (Hispanic) people were and are very conservative. They lived under a totalitarian government (Cuba) and know how bad it can be. My current next door neighbor fled Nicaragua when Ortega came to power. Again, it's behavior (learned or otherwise) not color, though of course I acknowledge demographic political differences. But it is those differences that are the cause, not the effect.
This is complicated, but I've studed this a bit so here is my take.

1) US Hispanis are in fact the lowest gun owning major demographic and the least supportive of the 2A. That is consistent in all the polling and surveys. Bu this tends to change over time, the more generations a Hispanic is here the more supportive of the 2A they become.

2) BUT not being supportive, or being ambiguous or being least likely to own a gun does NOT make them the most stridently opposed to the Second amendment as an individual right. The most stride enemies of the 2A, just as the most hard left on all issues, are in fact white liberals -- specifically educated white liberal women. And this is becoming more pronounced each year. The polling shows hat when you look at support of total bans, active membership of gun control groups etc.

Unmarried, higher than average income, higher than average education, white women are the most broadly, acutely and actively pro gun control demographic there is.

It turns out that there is now an increasing amount of research indicating that elite Democrats are moving away from the rest of the party. Democratic elites are getting more secular, more culture-war-focused, and perhaps even more identity-politics-focused than the minority and working-class voters who still make up a majority of the Democratic coalition. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...ssive-problem/

Well-educated whites, especially white women, are pushing the party decisively leftward. According to Gallup, the share of white Democrats calling themselves liberal on social issues has grown since 2001 from 39 to 61 percent. Because of this growth, white liberals are now roughly 40 percent of all Democratic voters.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/18/o...left-turn.html
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Old February 22nd, 2019, 01:13 AM #53
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Yep, and I believe many Europeans are getting wise. Gun sales are up.
I've spent near half my life in Europe and follow gun control and gun culture there. Your statement is completely incorrect. Gun ownership is falling in Europe
One or two outlier countries do not change the fact that the EU rules, which are increasingly oppressive on gun ownership, are now overriding country laws.
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Old March 3rd, 2019, 09:55 AM #54
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Your post is overly simplistic. Yes, it's true that there are plenty of white liberals, but previously conservative states like California and Virginia are now liberal solely because of non-white immigration. This isn't a point of debate.
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Old March 3rd, 2019, 10:08 AM #55
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Originally Posted by rascal View Post
I've spent near half my life in Europe and follow gun control and gun culture there. Your statement is completely incorrect. Gun ownership is falling in Europe
One or two outlier countries do not change the fact that the EU rules, which are increasingly oppressive on gun ownership, are now overriding country laws.
https://www.range365.com/european-gu...trict-gun-laws
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Old March 3rd, 2019, 10:10 AM #56
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I've spent near half my life in Europe and follow gun control and gun culture there. Your statement is completely incorrect. Gun ownership is falling in Europe
One or two outlier countries do not change the fact that the EU rules, which are increasingly oppressive on gun ownership, are now overriding country laws.
The outliers I can think of are the Czech Republic and Finland. Does the EU really have any way of punishing them to force them to submit? Would they submit or rebel?
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Old March 3rd, 2019, 11:02 AM #57
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There is a shift in many states for a couple reasons. My thoughts are two fold.
1. As I saw in the 90s, Florida is experiencing a double whammy. My grandparents lived down there and many or their friends, as well as others, were retirees from New York, New Jersey and other liberal New England states. Their politics follow them, and they vote along their party lines, changing the host state they now reside in. I saw this first hand in the 90s, and it seems to be happening faster now as New Yorkers are fleeing high tax Cuomo's New York. Escaping the crushing taxes, but dragging along their gun bias.
2. Youth indoctrination. Kids are everywhere, and in ever greater numbers. The left gets to them thru social media, TV, teen magazines, school clubs, biased teachers, and the overall leftist infiltration of the education system. I service equipment all over. I also have kids in school. My naive philosophy as a parent is, politics should be kept out of the classroom. Teach them to read, write, science and math stuff, but no endorsement of a particular ideology. Being in the schools, I overheard on a consistent basis praise for Obama and his policies, sympathies for socialism and communism referring to the Soviet Union and how their vision was noble but in implication was a failure due to the weakness of people, and greed. On the anniversary of 9/11 last year, teachers telling the stories of our Arab allies overseas helping the US, with no mention of our enemies, or why they attacked us. I wouldn't mind if it was a balanced account, but instead I felt it was portrayed like we somehow deserved it, by our presence over there. But in the primary schools it is happening, and in the private colleges and universities it is happening. The youth are being force fed garbage, and being brainwashed. Successfully. We've all seen the videos where an undercover person goes to a campus to ask absurd questions or get students to sign some ridiculous petition. Young people are generally more malleable than older people with defined opinions, and vote with their emotions. They feel they are the future, revolutionary and want to change the world. They also have a feeling of superiority in them. When their opinions are challenged, even with proven fact, they often blurt out to "educate ourselves" or read about it. They often refer to conservatives as uneducated hicks. So, their arrogance drives much of their firm resolve as well, closing off their mind to the fact they could be wrong. But there are colleges and universities everywhere. Kids, often funded by mommy and daddy, brainwashed by liberal academia. They vote how they were taught, and the school shootings often result in casualties in their peer group, so they vote on emotions rather than fact. This is what the Parkland shooting did in Florida. Subtract the fact Cruz went thru a background check. Subtract he was on the school's, police, and FBI radar. Subtract the fact a school employee saw Cruz walking around and avoided him. Subtract the fact that when the police did show up, they failed to engage the shooter. Now add in the blame for the NRA and supposed lax gun laws that "allowed" this to happen, even though capital murder is a crime, punishable by death. The democrats have made a vow to turn southern states blue.

There is a big push in both Florida and Georgia right now. There really isn't anywhere to flee to anymore. They are pushing hard in Texas with the cause being illegal immigration and gun control a secondary issue for voters. Austin is pretty bad from what my Texas buddy says. Where the cocks not glocks campus protests were against campus carry. Arizona got Kristen Sinema, and might be getting Gabby's anti gun Mark Kelly who blames the NRA and gun manufacturers. Sadly, unless something dramatic happens it will only get worse for us, I think. We are becoming outnumbered by a generation who completely missed the Cold War, and did not see the effects of communism. All these empty promises are fairly new to them. They have been living on mommy and daddy's dime, so a transition to being supported by the Govt, is comforting. Having to suffer a bit and work hard sucks. Right now we are talking about the gun issue, but with the indoctrination being such a success, even older democrats themselves are getting worried. With radicals like AOC, and Bernie, their constituency is taking many of their hairbrained radical proposals seriously. The gun stuff is just part of it. Wait until we are paying a 55%+ tax and minimum wage is $30/hr. Florida is just a symptom of an aggressive cancer of ideology in our nation. We are in a Civil Cold War right now.
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