Non-Regulated Long Gun Transfer

pp55ftw · Nov 16, 2019

Hi all,

Have a few question about private party non-regulated long gun transfers. I was told you don't need to go through an FFL/MSP since it isn't regulated. Just wanted to confirm this is true. Still trying to figure out MD gun laws...

Also, the gun in question is an Arsenal SLR106CR which isn't banned on MSP but is it considered a regulated firearm (must go through an FFL?)

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

pp55ftw

Allen65 · Nov 16, 2019

Answer to your first question is "correct", as long as
- The buyer is a MD resident (interstate must go through FFL)
- The long gun is not on the ban list, or considered a copy of a banned firearm (which is your second question, which I can't answer)
- You know of no reason to believe that the buyer is prohibited from legally possessing firearms in MD (underage, felony convictions, institutionalization, domestic abuse convictions or court protective orders, etc.)

Hit and Run · Nov 16, 2019

Allen65 said:
Answer to your first question is "correct", as long as
- The buyer is a MD resident (interstate must go through FFL)
- The long gun is not on the ban list, or considered a copy of a banned firearm (which is your second question, which I can't answer)
- You know of no reason to believe that the buyer is prohibited from legally possessing firearms in MD (underage, felony convictions, institutionalization, domestic abuse convictions or court protective orders, etc.)

Not banned and would not be regulated. Below from MSP web site.

Manufacturer**Arsenal
Description**

Arsenal SLR 106 FR, F, CR

Status**Not Banned

Justification**

Does not meet the definition of a copycat weapon or the definition of a copy of an enumerated weapon

Date of Status**5/30/2017Notes

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Reptile · Nov 16, 2019

Allen65 said:
Answer to your first question is "correct", as long as
- The buyer is a MD resident (interstate must go through FFL)
- The long gun is not on the ban list, or considered a copy of a banned firearm (which is your second question, which I can't answer)
- You know of no reason to believe that the buyer is prohibited from legally possessing firearms in MD (underage, felony convictions, institutionalization, domestic abuse convictions or court protective orders, etc.)

For OP: You have to decide what documentation, if any, you want to have to make sure the sale complies with the law. For face to face sales like this I prefer to have a copy of the buyer’s driver license and a signed bill of sale with a statement that the buyer is not a prohibited person.

Squaregrouper · Nov 16, 2019

Reptile said:
For OP: You have to decide what documentation, if any, you want to have to make sure the sale complies with the law. For face to face sales like this I prefer to have a copy of the buyer’s driver license and a signed bill of sale with a statement that the buyer is not a prohibited person.

Agreed.
I make buyers show up with a photocopy of their driver's license on a sheet of paper. I have them hand write on the paper something along these lines (not verbatim)...
I, John J Doe, am purchasing a Brand X, model ABC rifle, serial number 123456 from John Q Public.
I am legally allowed to purchase this firearm and am taking possession on __/__/____
Signature of buyer

FWIW- Several years ago, I sold an SKS here and required the bill of sale. For some reason, The ATF later did a trace on the rifle. I told them I sold it, clarifying what documentation I had. I faxed it to Martinsburg WV and they called me saying "Thanks for the receipt, that is all we need". I never heard anything beyond that.

Meditator · Nov 16, 2019

Just wondering, anyone knows how long I should keep the BOS for? 5yrs? 10yrs... ?

rbird7282 · Nov 16, 2019

Meditator said:
Just wondering, anyone knows how long I should keep the BOS for? 5yrs? 10yrs... ?

There is no requirement for a bill of sale (although it’s good practice) so there’s no requirement to keep it. Personally, I would keep it with my other firearm records for life

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Trigger Time · Nov 16, 2019

Also buyers that are dealing with a seller that is requesting personal information that is not required by law, should request the same information from the seller. That way if the gun they just bought turns up as being stolen or used in a crime, they are protected.
Ideally, both the buyer and the seller comply with current law and life goes on.

pp55ftw · Nov 16, 2019

Thanks everyone for the info. Appreciate it!

Doobie · Nov 17, 2019

squaregrouper said:
Agreed.
I make buyers show up with a photocopy of their driver's license on a sheet of paper. I have them hand write on the paper something along these lines (not verbatim)...
I, John J Doe, am purchasing a Brand X, model ABC rifle, serial number 123456 from John Q Public.
I am legally allowed to purchase this firearm and am taking possession on __/__/____
Signature of buyer

FWIW- Several years ago, I sold an SKS here and required the bill of sale. For some reason, The ATF later did a trace on the rifle. I told them I sold it, clarifying what documentation I had. I faxed it to Martinsburg WV and they called me saying "Thanks for the receipt, that is all we need". I never heard anything beyond that.

But but but that’s impossible because there is no “registration database” and nobody knows what you have after the background check
There may not be a centralized database, but nobody will convince me that there isn’t a database at all. The only ones that aren’t accurately accounted for are FTF sales, heirlooms, straw purchases, and black market buys.

kaliroger · Nov 17, 2019

pp55ftw said:
Thanks everyone for the info. Appreciate it!

Good luck with trying to figure out MD gun laws!!

Squaregrouper · Nov 17, 2019

Doobie said:
But but but that’s impossible because there is no “registration database” and nobody knows what you have after the background check
There may not be a centralized database, but nobody will convince me that there isn’t a database at all. The only ones that aren’t accurately accounted for are FTF sales, heirlooms, straw purchases, and black market buys.

I was a C&R licensee at the time. Don't know if that was a factor. The distributor had my info from the sale and The ATF knew who I bought it from.

Pinecone · Nov 17, 2019

The ATF can trace a firearm without a centralized list.

They contact the manufacturer, who knows who they shipped it to. The distributor knows which FFL it was shipped to. And the FFL has their bound book to show who they sold it to.

So they come and ask you. Easy.

Pinecone · Nov 17, 2019

Hit and Run said:
Not banned and would not be regulated. Below from MSP web site.

Manufacturer**Arsenal
Description**

Arsenal SLR 106 FR, F, CR

Status**Not Banned

Justification**

Does not meet the definition of a copycat weapon or the definition of a copy of an enumerated weapon

Date of Status**5/30/2017Notes

Realize that the online list is NOT legally binding. MSP says so right on the web page.

It is up to you to decide whether or not it meets the law or not/

Hit and Run · Nov 17, 2019

Pinecone said:
Realize that the online list is NOT legally binding. MSP says so right on the web page.

It is up to you to decide whether or not it meets the law or not/

But for me as a MD Sales License holder, guess what I'm going with. You are more than welcome to be test case....

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jef955 · Nov 17, 2019

Another thing you can do, take the gun to a local gun store, hand it over the counter with your drivers license, they'll have the buyer do a 4473, do a NICS check, and its transferred on the spot, as long as they're background check is clear.

Might cost $20 or so, but if you want piece of mind..

Happy selling

RoadDawg · Nov 17, 2019

jef955 said:
Another thing you can do, take the gun to a local gun store, hand it over the counter with your drivers license, they'll have the buyer do a 4473, do a NICS check, and its transferred on the spot, as long as they're background check is clear.

Might cost $20 or so, but if you want piece of mind..

Happy selling

Don't take this personally as it is merely a general statement... and NOT intended to call you out.

The more folks go overboard to jump through hoops which are not required by law... The more we risk being shoved into a situation whereby the anti gunners ask for a new law to force us to jump through those hoops... and cite "It's common practice now anyway." as their justification.

Protect your self and do "everything the current laws require". But there is no sense in going past that.

A bill of sale kept as a reminder and record of where and to whom the piece/s were sold... may help you if ever the question arises. That much is just common sense. But even that is not a requirement of the current laws.

Bertfish · Nov 17, 2019

RoadDawg said:
Don't take this personally as it is merely a general statement... and NOT intended to call you out.

The more folks go overboard to jump through hoops which are not required by law... The more we risk being shoved into a situation whereby the anti gunners ask for a new law to force us to jump through those hoops... and cite "It's common practice now anyway." as their justification.

Protect your self and do "everything the current laws require". But there is no sense in going past that.

A bill of sale kept as a reminder and record of where and to whom the piece/s were sold... may help you if ever the question arises. That much is just common sense. But even that is not a requirement of the current laws.

Any seller who requires more than the legal minimum doesnt get my business. That's the line I've drawn. Anyone who goes above and beyond just legitimizes the infringements.

I get especially picky and testy with C&R rules.

Pinecone · Nov 19, 2019

Hit and Run said:
But for me as a MD Sales License holder, guess what I'm going with. You are more than welcome to be test case....

The point is, you can cell something that the list says is legal, and find out that it is not.

RoadDawg · Nov 23, 2019

Pinecone said:
The point is, you can cell something that the list says is legal, and find out that it is not.

I'm sure you meant "sell"...

IF one relies upon the MSP Publication to guide them in their related matters. I see it as a matter of legal due diligence. And once due diligence is satisfied... "MSP Disclaimer and lack of proper site maintenance" is going to make it difficult for any prosecutor to gain a conviction in a case where a person sold an item in good faith. A good defense attorney "should" be able to argue that case with ease.

However, that being said... It still behooves one to be careful and never push the envelope with risks they should not take. If there are ANY questions about the sale... Call the MSP License Section and get THEM to give a verifiable opinion in the matter.

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