"The Army's new handgun already has some serious problems"

joma352 · Jan 30, 2018

Just saw this article and thought yall would be interested.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-armys-new-handgun-already-has-some-serious-problems-2018-1

Do you think Sig deserved the contract or stole it away from glock?

clandestine · Jan 30, 2018

If it's accurate (the article), I can only laugh. The entire adoption of that gun was a massive mistake.

Inigoes · Jan 30, 2018

That's what the army gets for going away from 1911s!

mopar92 · Jan 30, 2018

SIG got the contract because they submitted a bid somewhere around $100 million less than Glock. There is something to be said about buying a more expensive, better known and better tested pistol. All the SIG 320's I've seen have been excellent pistols but their long term reliability measured in years and myriad enviroments with vastly different users and experience levels is simply an unknown.

ohen cepel · Jan 30, 2018

Glock didn't meet the basic requirements as I recall. The tax payer is who should be steamed as Beretta gave them a gun which met specs and was proven but they instead with with SIG. Sticking with Beretta would have saved millions in parts and training costs but instead they went with SIG.

Huckleberry · Jan 30, 2018

What do you expect from the same US Army that gave us the Bradley Fighting Vehicle and the OH-58 Kiowa ?

Stagstalker · Jan 30, 2018

" selecting Sig Sauer’s entry due to its relatively lower price point for a two-gun proposal that offered “overall the best value to the government."

Since when has the government ever been concerned with how much it spent? Smoking gun? Sounds like they skipped the testing...

iH8DemLibz · Jan 30, 2018

Sig leaving a Sauer taste.

iH8DemLibz · Jan 30, 2018

ohen cepel said:
Glock didn't meet the basic requirements as I recall. The tax payer is who should be steamed as Beretta gave them a gun which met specs and was proven but they instead with with SIG. Sticking with Beretta would have saved millions in parts and training costs but instead they went with SIG.

What made the Army want to switch from Beretta to Sig?

Blaster229 · Jan 30, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
What made the Army want to switch from Beretta to Sig?

Probably the same reason my agency once looked at the P250. 3 sizes to fit different hands.

joma352 · Jan 30, 2018

Blaster229 said:
Probably the same reason my agency once looked at the P250. 3 sizes to fit different hands.

yeah from what ive read the common theme is the fact that the sig is "modular", the army loves modular designs

Yoshi · Jan 30, 2018

Lowest price, technically acceptable (LPTA) comes to mind. Big risk in doing business that way, but it's a common approach.

Czechnologist · Jan 30, 2018

Huckleberry said:
What do you expect from the same US Army that gave us the Bradley Fighting Vehicle and the OH-58 Kiowa ?

And the M561 Gama Goat and the M47 Dragon and the...and the...

Stagstalker said:
Sounds like they skipped the testing...

...Glock filed a protest with the US Government Accountability Office claiming that US Army Materiel Command “improperly failed to complete reliability testing” on Sig Sauer’s compact XM17 entry. The complaint was thrown out, but the GAO’s judgment in June 2017 suggests that the branch ended up selecting Sig Sauer’s entry due to its relatively lower price point for a two-gun proposal that offered “overall the best value to the government.”

Click to expand...

Glock's contention as well.

I wonder how much of a "great value" they think it is now?

danb · Jan 30, 2018

umm, didn't they check these things before they adopted them???

oh wait:

Glock filed a protest with the US Government Accountability Office claiming that US Army Materiel Command “improperly failed to complete reliability testing” on Sig Sauer’s compact XM17 entry.

rob-cubed · Jan 30, 2018

Follow the money.

Not better, but cheaper. I haven't shot a 320 but the venerable 226 probably should have replaced the M9 way back when. But then, as now, the size of procurement contracts was one of the primary decision motivators.

sajidakh · Jan 30, 2018

The M9, properly maintained is as reliable as any firearm in existence. The ones we used in training had 10s of thousands of rounds on them, rattled like hell and outlived their service life. Otherwise the ones used in theater were a great platform and the weight tradeoff was well worth it in my opinion for the remf that carried them.

John from MD · Jan 30, 2018

Blaster229 said:
Probably the same reason my agency once looked at the P250. 3 sizes to fit different hands.

True. People have complained since Beretta contract was issued that the shooter needs big hands. In recent years, ergonomics has been recognized as important to ensuring proficiency.

Luckily when I carried a 229, Sig developed a short trigger for those of us with smaller hands. It made a world of difference in controlling the weapon.

Doctor_M · Jan 30, 2018

Just think how much money they could have saved if they just went with Hi-Points.... low cost is not typically best value.

ohen cepel · Jan 30, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
What made the Army want to switch from Beretta to Sig?

It wasn't that they wanted to move to SIG automatically, it was a thought process that the Beretta was too old and so they needed something new.

That would be fine if the new was an improvement.

They did a study to find people who had used a pistol in actual combat in the last 10yrs or so. Oddly, almost 1/2 of the confirmed uses belonged to ONE guy who was CQB guy in SOCOM, he liked the Beretta and that was his go to. There were few negatives against it with people who were pistol guys.

However, time was sort of up for it so they wanted something new.

Should ditch the B52, the 50 cal, and the M16 as they all far outdate the Beretta!!!!!

Name Taken · Jan 30, 2018

If Glock had won we'd be reading the same article about them.

"The Army's new handgun already has some serious problems"

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