Is there anything wrong with taking foreign tourist friends to a range to let them shoot guns?
Can a felon shoot rental guns
- Thread starter Sam Salvati
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Is there anything wrong with taking foreign tourist friends to a range to let them shoot guns?
Rangeishot
Member
I served on a Fed Grand Jury for 18 months. This came up several times where felons were tracked by ATF for going to the range. Indictments were 100% served.
Like I said, it's possible, but not probable. Either way, still illegal.
Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
Non-citizens if they are legally in the US are generally not prohibited from possession. I’d do a bit more research to confirm that, but I am 98% sure (but not like “put my own butt on the line” sure).
Gun Range Tourism is very popular.
This is half the reason I also don’t believe the current prohibited person criteria is good or okay.
The other half is I think it needs to be the ACTUAL sentence if it’s a non-violent crime. If the possible sentence on a computer hacking crime is 10 years and you plead out or get convicted and sentenced to 6-months because what you really did was pretty minor, so you get handed a short sentence...or even just a non-confinement sentence, why the heck should you lose some of your rights after the sentence is served.
Sometimes there is a victim, but the crime really does meet the definition of a minor violation. IE the same statute could both indicate a minor or a major crime, but has a single sentencing range.
When you sign the waiver.
huesmann
n00b
The sentences handed down by the courts are what we, as a society, have agreed to as the punishment for the crime. Once that punishment has been meted out and completed, an offender is considered to have paid his/her debt to society.
Now you may feel that the penalties are insufficient. And that is your right in this country. And as a citizen you are more than welcome to start a movement to increase them. However, just because you feel they're insufficient doesn't mean everyone else thinks they are.
The OP said his friends were drug felons. I don't believe any felonies can be expunged.
Possession exists under property law. Each state may have it's quirks but out starts here;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_(law)
Md is aggressively restrictive on this. Md law prohibits firearm ownership as well as possession by persons convicted of many different crimes. Therefore, the answer for you - the law-abiding firearms owner with no convictions - is a hard NO. The punishment by the State of Maryland would not be restricted to your co-workers. You would likely be prosecuted for knowingly allowing a convicted felon to possess your legally owned firearms and potentially lose your rights.
Your co-workers should seek advice from an attorney so they know their rights. While some felonies may not disqualify those convicted from ownership/possession, most do. They should also find out if they are eligible to have their record expunged and whether expungement removes the firearm ownership/possession prohibition in Maryland. An expungement will depend on the law of the state where they were convicted. Some states, like VA, do not have a meaningful expungement or pardon process, so the record stands.
Your co-workers should seek advice from an attorney so they know their rights. While some felonies may not disqualify those convicted from ownership/possession, most do. They should also find out if they are eligible to have their record expunged and whether expungement removes the firearm ownership/possession prohibition in Maryland. An expungement will depend on the law of the state where they were convicted. Some states, like VA, do not have a meaningful expungement or pardon process, so the record stands.
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
By the way, non-citizens in the US may well be prohibited persons. See 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5):
It is unlawful to possess for a person
(5) who, being an alien--
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));
For example, a person in the U.S. on a student visa may not possess
Last edited:
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
NOT necessarily true at all. See 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5).
danb
dont be a dumbass
Maryland lets you expunge possession with intent to distribute and some other felonies now (since 2018, see here https://www.mdcourts.gov/district/forms/criminal/expungementpublicnotice_102018). "Felony" is kind of a misnomer in Maryland, because classically "felony" means more than a year - however many MD "misdemeanors" will get you 10 years or more. You really have to talk to a lawyer to know precisely what the charges were and whether your rights can be restored.
So, based on
"except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;"
a temporary "loan" at a range or such is OK for a tourist under part B.
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
No, the ban on possession includes *any* possession or constructive possession, no matter how temporary. Note that the applicable exception to (d)(5) and (g)(5) is:
Exceptions.--Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been
lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is--
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;
Now, it also depends on where the tourist is from. Some tourist aliens are admitted to the United without any visa if they meet the requirements of the visa waiver program. See https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-visit/visa-waiver-program.html If you are admitted without any visa, then the bar on possession does not apply to you at all.
No Sir, you and them would be charged under Maryland law. They can not even have ammo on their person. You would be charged with a felony and if covicted would lose you right to firearms possession. I understand your feelings, but it's to risky to chance.
So, the guy who posted earlier about taking his English visitors to the range was okay as long as they have the unrestricted right of permanent abode in England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands, and the Isle of Man. Is that what all that byzantine language means? My head hurts, but thank you for the information.
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