annihilation-time
MOLON LABE
I'm sure it comes down to money.
PMAGs banned!
- Thread starter MauiWowie
- Start date
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Nubz
Yankee Trash
- Mar 16, 2012
- 181
Janes a girls name
Mooseman
R.I.P.- Hooligan #4
We should see a large supply of surplus PMAGs soon.
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
Please explain why PMAGS are so gay considering they eliminate most of the main failure points for an AR Weapon System. While I disagree with this blanket decision regarding al Polymer Mags it HAS to be done. You have idiots using crap products like Miltec overseas when its NEVER passed any Mil Testing. Its junk and Soldiers/MArines/Sailors/Airmen should NOT be using non approved products on their weapons.
ECPDefense
Active Member
I see it as a contracting CYA.
TACOM has a contract with a specific vendor to manufacture and supply magazines for a specified time and amount. Vendor hears that the boots on the ground like something else. Vendor gets worried. TACOM sends out blanket message saying they are not authorized.
Vendor is going to get there money no matter what. Maybe the contract is near completion.
Also, if something did happen to a soldier due to an unauthorized magazine malfunction, they can go back and say "Well we told them to use the authorized magazines".
TACOM has a contract with a specific vendor to manufacture and supply magazines for a specified time and amount. Vendor hears that the boots on the ground like something else. Vendor gets worried. TACOM sends out blanket message saying they are not authorized.
Vendor is going to get there money no matter what. Maybe the contract is near completion.
Also, if something did happen to a soldier due to an unauthorized magazine malfunction, they can go back and say "Well we told them to use the authorized magazines".
smores
Creepy-Ass Cracker
This may be true. There's only one source for PMAGs. Not sure how it works but there are probably half a dozen (give or take) producers of contract GI magazines today, agencies/branches can request bids on contracts. This is why people in the know shy away from the term "MILSPEC". MILSPEC is the bare minimum. If it's not "MILSPEC" it may be complete crap, but it also may be awesome, just not officially adopted/recognized by the brass.
Well, the DI AR-15 and M-9 are still the issued weapons of choice so it's nothing new.
What's wrong with either of these designs? If you take a Ford truck and run it 500,000 miles, never change the oil or belts and it breaks down, is it the fault of Ford? From what I've seen personally and heard from friends of people I've talked to in the military, these weapon systems are not maintained anywhere near properly in almost every case. Add to that the mix of sh*tty mags to both of these weapon systems, and you have a recipe for disaster.
I think he was trying to use a double negative there to support PMAGs... lol. Oh and MILITEC has a NSN on the bottle! Doesn't that mean it's the choice of Navy SEALs and badass operators in the land of the sand? lol
Um yeah I was responding to a post by indiana jones who stated that pmags are gay. I figured that since liberal politicians never make sense when they make legislation regarding firearms it would be obvious that I was being sarcastic about PMAGs being gay. I'm gonna keep using my personal pmags for "work" until someone in my unit tells me I can't. I have never had a malfunction with my AR or my M-4 when using PMAGs. The only time I have ever had a malfunction was while I was forced to use the ranges beat up shitty steel gi mags. Also I believe miltec is just lube not a cleaning product. CLP cleans and lubricates. So if you are using miltec to clean your weapon I believe you are doing wrong.
This announcement has been discussed at length on another forum for weeks. From what I've read, it sounds like what the military is trying to do is prevent soldiers from buying substandard PMAGs. Most poeple here associate PMAGs with Magpul, which I guess are pretty good (maybe even better than top notch USGI magazines) but a lot of other manufacturers have jumped on the bandwagon, and not all soldier's know the difference between PMAGs. All they know is that it's plastic, so they assume it must be good. As the military can't test all varieties of PMAGs to see if they pass, they are going with what they know has passed, which is USGI magazines with tan followers.
smores
Creepy-Ass Cracker
Have you tried Slip 2000 EWL? I have used it on many guns and it tends to prevent fouling from sticking to the parts. I can literally wipe dirt and grime of an AR BCG without having to scrub/scrape anything. My AR-15 SBR has just over 1500 rounds through it, 600 rounds fired suppressed. I've never cleaned it once (except for a boresnake every 500 rounds), and it's lubed with Slip 2000 EWL. I'm gonna keep shooting it dirty until it stops. The only 4 malfunctions I have had, have been 2 failures to feed, dropping the bolt using the bolt catch on topped off Colt mags with old springs and GI followers, and 2 failures to lock when empty on those same magazines. I swapped the springs and put MagPul followers in them and never had another problem.
Isn't PMAG the actual trademarked product name for the MagPul magazines? Or are people referring to all polymer mags as "PMAGS" like people call any copy machine a Xerox even though it may be a Canon or something else... There are other polymer mags such as Thermold, Orlite (those are old school), and more recently the Lancer L5, Troy BattleMag, TangoDown ARC, etc. I'm sure there are some knockoffs, as there always are. But if you're buying your mags from a reputable source like Brownells, BCM, MidwayUSA, etc. you will be getting the real deal.
Fishguy
Ultimate Member
The US gov gets raped on everything they purchase. Trust me, I used to sell IT equipment to the US government under GSA contract. They get charged a premium for everything they buy, they just don't know it most of the time.
Indiana Jones
Wolverine
I was just kidding, I own quite a few PMAGS! They're actually really nice. The ones I have are the windowed ones. A relative who is an infantry officer in the army told me about this today. He doesn't care either way, as he said the guys who maintained their GI mags never had failures. He said for his last deployment he ordered a large shipment of PMAGS for his guys. Well looks like I might be getting a few of those now.
SUCKS they can't use them but that's the green weenie right?
AliasNeo07
Ultimate Member
This really pisses me off. Bad for the troops. Also very, very bad for Magpul since troops ordering PMAGs had to account for a LARGE portion of their revenue.
Interesting, maybe I'll try it out on my AR.
I'm a huge fan of magpul and their products. Being National Guard we usually get left over stuff from big army. So when the tan followers came out we didn't get new mags with them installed we were given the followers to replace the green ones. We were instructed to install them in our old beaten up mags. For those of you who are not familiar with the big problem with GI mags, the mag lips bend easily whether from abuse or from rounds being pushed against them from the spring. This usually causes double feeds which are almost always the most unpleasant and time consuming to clear. Having it happen in a firefight is almost as bad as running out of ammo because you are effectively unable to fight back for at least 9 seconds. Those of you who have been lucky enough to have never been in a fire fight might be thinking 9 seconds doesn't seem like a long time. The 7.62x39 round will have traveled less than 21,000 feet in that time. The AK-47 is capable of firing 90 rounds in that amount of time. That means you could have been killed over 90 times with in the time it took you to clear the least frustrating double feed. Sometimes the rounds be come so stubbornly jammed in that the bolt is unable to be pulled back(due to one of the double feed rounds being lodged above the bolt and under the charging handle) without placing the butt of the rifle on the ground, barrel up in the air, and stomping on the charging handle release latch.
No, they know it. But with all the rules Federal Procurement has to follow the only people they CAN buy from are the ones screwing us (the tax payers)!
smores
Creepy-Ass Cracker
Trust me, it's legit! You still get carbon buildup on the rear of the bolt, which IMO isn't a big deal (I never clean it off and my rifles work just fine) but they make scrapers for that. Everything else just wipes off, there's just sort of a general thin black grime all over your BCG and upper, but mine is still ticking. I'll be sure to post my round count once it finally gets so fouled it won't work!
In my experience with ARs, just inspect your bolt and gas rings, keep it well lubed, and run it with good mags and you'll be fine. Good ammo helps too, my SBR has only seen LC overruns, maybe a couple mags of PMC...
cjroman
Active Member
Typical Uncle Sugar type thinking here...Been out almost ten years and nothing has changed.
squirrels
Who cooks for you?
- Jan 25, 2008
- 4,021
This. Likely with the government under pressure to combat deficit spending, the military figures that it's not worth it to pay for fancy polymer mags when the USGIs typically work just fine.
I'm not sure how many mags per 100 or per 1000 end up causing a "stoppage", but my thoughts are that a lot of non-front-line units are ordering Pmags that would be just fine with standard USGI mags.
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