ATF to declare that AR Pistols are AOW
- Thread starter KP Shooter
- Start date
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StantonCree
Watch your beer
- Jan 23, 2011
- 23,932
I don’t really wanna change over but honestly I’d rather have a SBR anyway so if this goes into effect I’ll end up with cooler guns then i started lol. If I’m gonna do paperwork I’ll end up with a suppressor too
You're so cool!
Yeah, probably the same. I just would really like to move and get a trust set up first.
Also if Biden gets his way and every "AW" gets tossed on the NFA I would imagine that everyone who complies and knows anything would just SBR the things instead.
Pistol braces were always a ludicrous play by people who thought they were gonna fool the ATF long term into getting freebie SBRs and skirt 5320.20s. Doubly so if they were using the SBA3/4, which DIDN'T EVEN HAVE DETERMINATION LETTERS FFS. Maybe Trump will override this (skeptical!), but when Biden wins the election, I fully expect a "lol braces and stabilizers are now stocks" determination from the ATF.
That said, I also think the NFA should go away entirely, even if that is basically politically impossible.
benton0311
Active Member
- Feb 26, 2011
- 358
Disregard, I mixed up Form 1 and Form 4 transfer costs for AOW.
SBR laws are dumb and we all know that so I don't fault anyone, but this really does suck for the people with injuries who need the brace to use their gun at all. Plus they do make it easier to fire one handed as intended for everyone. Funny how ableism is evil until it comes to something the left does not like.
If they were actually being used primarily by disabled people, we would not be having this conversation, I suspect. Unfortunately, a bunch of people wanting to save $200 and some paperwork ruined it for them.
Muleskinner
Ultimate Member
It appears to me like many of you have lost sight on why you are gun owners in the first place. Our founding fathers were brilliant. Smart enough to acknowledge your natural right to self-defense particularly against tyrannical government you don't own your guns so that you can go out and feed your family . You Don't own your guns so you can ring steel at a thousand yards or beat the other guy in the free gun competition or knock Clay's out of the sky. The founding fathers acknowledged your right to defend yourself against the tyrannical government by confirming that you have the right to own that gun to defend yourself and the country against tyrants. if you're not willing to stand up for your natural rights you have no business having a firearm... If you think remaining law-abiding is more important than fighting for your rights then you have completely lost site of why you own them in the first place. I can't say it any clearer than that. When the Democrats return to power in the House of Representatives, the United States senate, and the White House they are going to pass Allah that makes what you have in your safe right now illegal for you to owe. It's not a matter of if but when. If you're not willing to stand up against these illegal infringements just go turn them in now.
You're right its the avg consumer's fault....fudd alert.
pcfixer
Ultimate Member
Did you come here just to troll peoples comments?
Way to add constructively to this discussion.
I am with Erwos. You are either out of touch with reality or simply lying to yourself and others if you think the left isn't wising up to these arm braces and how they are used, as intended or otherwise.
I remember my first time using an arm brace as well as the very first thing that popped into my head.
Kharn
Ultimate Member
+1
GOA fundraising emails always go full retard.
The importation block may happen, but domestic production can't be stopped.
"Handgun. (a) Any firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(b) Any combination of parts from which a firearm described in paragraph (a) can be assembled."
"(e)Any other weapon
The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition."
So the idea being AOWs is anything under 26" overall length (the traditions boundary of concealable) that are not pistols and SBRs, and the ATF could be saying these larger "pistols" aren't for use with one hand so they must be AOWs.
But silhouette pistols have existed for years with rifle sights and rifle calibers, in front heavy configurations with bipods and forearms. One example in a plethora of calibers, up to 5.5lbs without accessories.
Attachments
You completely missed the point. Some people would still like to be able to take their toys to the range without being arrested. That does not indicate a desire to rollover. You go ahead and keep throwing temper tantrums though.
alucard0822
For great Justice
I agree with Sajidakh. IMO the whole "brace" thing points out a couple things, the NFA's arbitrary definitions and barrel length requirements are complete garbage. A few companies built devices that did not meet the legal definition of a stock, and in turn the firearms did not meet the definition of a rifle. These allowed modern compact rifles to be enjoyed without the onerous paperwork, $200 tax, and travel restrictions. All infringements that were passed simply because people let their reps pass them, because their firearm du jour wasn't targeted, and only the arms owned by "those people" were on the chopping block. It was barely a "wink and nod", never really a secret, nothing really to "wise up" to, "braces" from day 1 became popular ONLY because they allow modern compact rifles to be accessible by taking advantage of the poor wording of an unconstitutional and arbitrary infringement. If they were soely used as intended we wouldn't have the explosion in popularity of SBRs/ braced pistols, a new front to reagin lost rights, and the giant backlash a couple years ago when the ATF attempted to change law, declaring "misuse" somehow changes the legal definition of a firearm. You are out of touch with reality if you think they wouldn't ban everything that goes " bang" if they could. Somehow we are all too comfortable with .gov legislating away our rights, or in this case unelected burocrats potentially stripping rights and creating felons out of good people merely through their power to "interpret" an arcane and arbitrary law. It seems more and more companies are successfully pushing back against the NFA, and using it's legal definitions against it. More people are getting on board by purchasing those products, people are discovering the benefits of compact rifles, and pushing the line more than it has been pushed since lawful civilian carry was reclaimed in most states over the last couple decades.
GolfR
Ultimate Member
Another point is missed here. In the state of Maryland, we won’t be converting our pistols into AOW, SBRs or anything else because of the 29” OAL law. Our only option will be to remove the brace and shoot with a tube.
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,522
By the looks of how determinations are being made, that won't keep it from being an AOW. The weight, chamber and other BS tests they came up with likely mean even an ar with just a pistol tube is still an AOW.
StantonCree
Watch your beer
- Jan 23, 2011
- 23,932
Thanks bud! Now i just need a web belt and a plate carrier and you can upgrade that cool to awesome!
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