You can put a bullet(s) in a revolver and not even have to chamber it. If using a moon clip it is extremely quick and you're not going to load the moon clips at the range.
Are loaded mags considered weapons?
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gdubyacobb
Active Member
Guns locked in their own separate boxes and mags/ammo locked in another box.
That's how I roll.
That's how I roll.
Could the loaded rifle magazine law be referring to internal magazines of many common hunting rifles tubular/internal box etc. and not necessarily a detached magazine ? just wanted to post my 2cents
wilcam47
Ultimate Member
mag whip=the new pistol whip...some mags you could put a hurting on someone with one..
fivepointstar
Thank you MD-Goodbye
novus....I have first hand knowledge in a situation where a loaded mag next to a unloaded firearm. I was there!
Back in March deputy detains a car for suspicious activity in Bel Air. I roll up as well as several other deputies. THere were two occupants in the vehicle both from PA. In the car was a fully loaded magazine in hte near an empty M&P40 which was concealed in the back seat.
Since it was a grey area, I instructed the deputy to contact the District Court Commissioners office for clarification. The Commissioner advised we have probable cause to arrest both occupants due to vicinity to the firearm. I had a conversation with the driver who said he had a CCW through York Co PA and I saw it, I told him that permit was not valid in MD and he said he heard that if its not in the loaded its OK. He said he just purchased the M&P at the last York Gun show. Anyway both were arrested and charged for Poss of Concealed Firearm.
I saw the arresting deputy 2 weeks ago adn he just went to court on that incident. States Attorney dropped the charges on the passenger b/c the driver admitted to owning the pistol. THe driver was found guilty of Poss CDW.
The difference in this case was it was 1145PM, dark area, both from PA and no valid reason to have a gun. 2 young guys in a dark alley, they were there to pick up drugs 100% without a doubt certain it was a drop.
hope this helps. Just a note, the District Court Commissioner deals with the law on a dailly basis and determine probable cause for the arrest. Just for those who don't know exactly what they do.
(IMO if this happened in Balt it wouldn't have made it to court)
donmega334
Active Member
mag whip=the new pistol whip...some mags you could put a hurting on someone with one..
dammit you beat me to it ..... a loaded 33 round glock mag would do the trick
Fordracer2082
Active Member
I used to work at a dealer . I was told that a loaded mag or speed loader is considered a loaded gun in maryland
LOL! Great story about two losers.
I bet they were busted under 4-203 (the MD handgun law) and not 4-101 (MD generic concealed weapon law that actually exempts handguns from its provisions). Or maybe some crazy local ordinance I don't know about.
Those guys were not within the safe harbor of the MD handgun transport law for two reasons:
1) The gun doesn't appear to have been cased or in an enclosed holster.
2) The driver/passengers were not going to/from any of the "approved" locations.
I'm with Novus: the loaded magazine didn't help those guys you busted when looking at the totality of the circumstances, but it should not have been a factor in their guilt under 4-203.
This "hand grenade of an issue" might turn out to be my kids' private school/college fund source one day, but I don't seem to be attracting any LEO attention while I transport anything. Oh, well.
I emailed DNR about that, and an unnamed LE game warden responded in the affirmative ("magazine" = internal).
But I lost that email when I switched services.
There's a lot of that going around, as this thread shows.
I strongly disagree for many reasons.
One, a magazine inserted in the handgun can even be argued to not mean it is loaded if there is not one round in the chamber, but this is the extreme but supposedly this argument has worked on some judges.
Two, legislative intent is that the GA did not specify anything more that waht is stated and apparently simply having the handgun unloaded and in an enclosed holster or an enclosed case is more than enough to ensure it is not readily used. End game.
Three, the reductio ad absrudum, the law states one can wear or carry the unloaded handgun in an enclosed holster when going to the range and when walking, riding a horse, or riding a bike to the range both the handgun AND ammunition will be within arms reach and clearly accesible for inserting at least one round, so if the interpretaion you refer to was even remotely possible, then in order to legally walk, ride a horse or ride a bike to the range one would have to make two trips, one with the handgun and one with the ammo.
\Like I said, I will and have had loaded mags with my unloaded handgun in an enclosed holster sitting next to me and I will continue to do so. If I am the test case, then so be it and the cop and the department they work for will be sued if they arrest me for violating a law that does not exist. Bring it on!!!
There is absolutely NOTHING in law that says you cannot have a loaded handgun mag outside the gun and NO mention of mags for handguns when transporting accrding to 4-203. That is final in my book and to think ortherwise is to add to law what is not written or even implied and even is implied to be the opposite interpretration!
That is how I read it. The subject of the sentence in 10-410 is the rifle and it says the rifle must be unloaded.
I truly hat these anectdotes because they always leave out important details. One, if it was not in an enclosed holster or an enclosed case, then it is a violation of 4-203 and the loaded mag was an entirely different issue realting to a different law and case precedent.
When transporting within the confines of 4-203, there is nothing about the loaded mags whatsoever. But if you are transporting a handgun illegally outside of 4-203 then there are two additional laws which come into play at the least, one is 10-410 and the other can be 4-101.
There is allso another cour precedent on who may be allowed to be arrested and that is if all occupants of the vehicle have access to the handgun, then all can be charged with possession if there is no way to know if the occupants knew or not or if no one owns up to the handgun. There is a Special APpeals Court I read about this once years ago dealing with a handgun in the trunk under a jacket which was accessible from the passenger compartment by lowering the upper part of the backseat. They charged all four occupants with the possesion of the loaded handgun being transported in violation of 4-203....but this was NOT about the loaded mag making it a violation of 4-203 and the "arms reach" part was just about who was to be charged with possession. It, and apparently your case, was an apples and oranges thing that has nothing to do with the loaded mags not in a handgun being lawfully transported according to 4-203.
I will still continue to transport a loaded handgun mag next to an unloaded handgun in an enclosed holster. I stil have yet to learn of one case where someone was arrested for THAT in particular without any other side issues relating to other laws being broken.
LOL! Great story about two losers.
I bet they were busted under 4-203 (the MD handgun law) and not 4-101 (MD generic concealed weapon law that actually exempts handguns from its provisions). Or maybe some crazy local ordinance I don't know about.
Those guys were not within the safe harbor of the MD handgun transport law for two reasons:
1) The gun doesn't appear to have been cased or in an enclosed holster.
2) The driver/passengers were not going to/from any of the "approved" locations.
I'm with Novus: the loaded magazine didn't help those guys you busted when looking at the totality of the circumstances, but it should not have been a factor in their guilt under 4-203.
This "hand grenade of an issue" might turn out to be my kids' private school/college fund source one day, but I don't seem to be attracting any LEO attention while I transport anything. Oh, well.
I emailed DNR about that, and an unnamed LE game warden responded in the affirmative ("magazine" = internal).
But I lost that email when I switched services.
There's a lot of that going around, as this thread shows.
Damn, I should have read your post first before responding to fivepoint.
I think there is some cases, although wrongly determined IMO, that a handgun can sometimes be counted for the openly worn with intent to unlawfully injure or something or other, but I have a feeling if it made it the the Court of Appeals it would not survive.
I have to try and find it again if I can.
MauiWowie
I have the SIGness...
I will start the collection now for Novus's Bail send to my home address... thanks........
Bail? HOw about instead sending money to the lawyer of the officer I will sue just to even things up a bit?
There is absolutely no reason for me to believe I will be charged with a loaded mag if I otherwise transport according to 4-203. I will continue to transport with a loaded mag not in the unloaded and enclosed holsterd handgun when going to the range.
I practice what I proclaim.
MauiWowie
I have the SIGness...
OK collecting money for lawyer of the officer Novus will sue send to my home address.... thanks
rrrrrrkevin
Its comin right for me!
It would be a good cause,he is absolutely 100% correct and if you keep giving up your rights inch by inch by going rediculous lengths to disarm yourself rather than just following the law than next thing you know it will be the norm and youll be just carrying a set of handcuffs and slapping em on and displaying it out the window to the officer as a courtesy every time you get pulled over for a speeding. My rights are too important to me to let them erode away like that
rrrrrrkevin
Its comin right for me!
btw I carry my magazines with ammunition in them because it is perfectly legal,I just dont load them into the firearm because that would be against the law without a permit and I like to follow the law
fivepointstar
Thank you MD-Goodbye
LOL! Great story about two losers.
I bet they were busted under 4-203 (the MD handgun law) and not 4-101 (MD generic concealed weapon law that actually exempts handguns from its provisions). Or maybe some crazy local ordinance I don't know about.
Those guys were not within the safe harbor of the MD handgun transport law for two reasons:
1) The gun doesn't appear to have been cased or in an enclosed holster.
2) The driver/passengers were not going to/from any of the "approved" locations.
I'm with Novus: the loaded magazine didn't help those guys you busted when looking at the totality of the circumstances, but it should not have been a factor in their guilt under 4-203.
This "hand grenade of an issue" might turn out to be my kids' private school/college fund source one day, but I don't seem to be attracting any LEO attention while I transport anything. Oh, well.
I was addressing the question from the OP. He asked if "Loaded Mags are Considered A Weapon?" A loaded mag in itself is not but in close proximity to the firearms itself, both a DC Commissioner and a judge would say yes it is. In this case, I don't think the fact that the firearm was in an enclosed hoster or not would have made a difference.
Now...why having a loaded mag is a different question. I figured everyone would be interested in this incident b/c the court has decided that a loaded mag in proximity of a firearm is considered a loaded firearm in this case. If it goes to an appellate court, I'll be sure to let everyone know b/c
pilotguy
Ultimate Member
When I was a police officer in Howard County, I arrested several people with handguns on their persons where the magazine was loaded with rounds, and inserted into the weapon. No round was chambered. All of the cases led to convictions, and two tried to assert that not chambering a round did not constitute a loaded weapon. The Maryland courts ruled that a magazine with ammo in it, inserted into a weapon, constitutes a loaded weapon.
thats how it has gone down, the official stance by the MDSP is that a loaded magazine is considered probable cause for search and seizer, while the assistance states atorney has states that there is nothing inthe law saying its illegal.
the law says one thing, the law man says another.
but it comes down to the officer that is on scene. some are more gun friendly than others.
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