Pale Ryder
Ultimate Member
Someone said earlier to try different ammo, I think that will help too.
My 308 Savage; Looking for suggestions for tighter groups
- Thread starter dreadpirate
- Start date
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- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
Between the scope/action/base screws being worked loose, I'd be willing to bet that the OP will see a significant improvement - even with 150gr FMJ's.
Get some 168gr/175gr FGMM also, and it should be a night and day difference.
**In my Savage 10, B&C A5 stock - I noticed a subtle, but detectable difference in consistency with the actions screws torqued to 45 in/lbs, vs. the recommended 60 in/lbs.
Get some 168gr/175gr FGMM also, and it should be a night and day difference.
**In my Savage 10, B&C A5 stock - I noticed a subtle, but detectable difference in consistency with the actions screws torqued to 45 in/lbs, vs. the recommended 60 in/lbs.
Silverlax
Active Member
Go with the federal gold medal match in 175gr. Those savage model 10 308s love it. I have one and it will put a 5 shot group at 3/4moa with factory ammo.
OP, do consider treating yourself to a box of FGMM now that you've got things tightened up. There arguably isn't a factory load made today that has had more extensive development, or that is as widely acknowledged to yield good results in most rifles most of the time.
lkenefic
Ultimate Member
- Aug 19, 2011
- 3,778
Ditto Federal Gold Medal Match... my rifle (Remington 700) prefers the 168 gr. HPBTM load.
FWIW - I switched to using the DNZ mount (http://www.dnzproducts.com/product/game-reaper-savage-2/) and reloading my own rounds. I'm certainly not a great shot but now have much better groups and consistency (guessing that the side benefit of reloading is I'm going out shooting more to test different recipes).
dreadpirate
Ultimate Member
Barrel is free-floated - I can run a slip of paper under it and there are no obstructions.
I will check the crown very carefully under magnification.
Hopefully tightening all of the scope screws to the recommended torque will help, as they were all loose.
Probably just loose screws. However, it could also be a bad scope and it might not seem like it. I’ve got a pair of Bushnell Trophy XLT 3-9x40 scopes. One was on my 20” AR-15 one on my Sako .308. The one on the Sako is slightly older and I got it used. Seemed to be great shape. Only thing was I noticed it was kind of soft past 7x. More like slightly unfocused rather than cheap glass. Not really bad, but noticeably not as good as the one on my AR-15. The One on the Sako was bought a year before the one on the AR-15.
Anyway, the Sako would group for crap. 3” groups with 147gr FMJ, 2.5” soft point groups and even gold medal match couldn’t do better than 2” groups and at 200yds I was getting nearly 6” groups with GMM. A Sako shouldn’t shoot like that and the prior owner swore it shot great. I figured I just hadn’t found the right ammo or something. I finally started to suspect the scope. A few weeks ago I just swapped the scope from my AR-15 on to the Sako and got a new scope for the AR15.
The Sako groups dropped to 1.5” with FMJ and 155gr match ammo is shooting all 3 holes touching. Now that is what I am talking about!!!
I suspect the scope parallax has gone bad/failed/broken/whatever. That is the best description I could find on the internet for scope problems that seemed to match my description (scope can focus fine at close distance, but it won’t focus quite properly at higher power past about 50yds)
Anyway, the Sako would group for crap. 3” groups with 147gr FMJ, 2.5” soft point groups and even gold medal match couldn’t do better than 2” groups and at 200yds I was getting nearly 6” groups with GMM. A Sako shouldn’t shoot like that and the prior owner swore it shot great. I figured I just hadn’t found the right ammo or something. I finally started to suspect the scope. A few weeks ago I just swapped the scope from my AR-15 on to the Sako and got a new scope for the AR15.
The Sako groups dropped to 1.5” with FMJ and 155gr match ammo is shooting all 3 holes touching. Now that is what I am talking about!!!
I suspect the scope parallax has gone bad/failed/broken/whatever. That is the best description I could find on the internet for scope problems that seemed to match my description (scope can focus fine at close distance, but it won’t focus quite properly at higher power past about 50yds)
5.56blaster
Ultimate Member
Bingo!!
What kind of rings are you using, steel or aluminum? I had an issue 3 years ago that took 2 years to figure out. Had a 4x Simmons on a Remington 870 12 gauge w/cantilever scope mount. Killed probably 35-40 deer with that rig, cloverleafing groups at 50 yds every year. Then 3 years ago missed 2 simple 40 yd shots same day. Put up a target next day at 40 and was 5-6” to the right, wow. Dialed it back over & was good, shot a doe following weekend.
The next year same problem, missed again (wounded at only 15 yds actually). Checked rings to see if they were loose, tight as heck, none of the screws would budge (couldn’t tighten any at all). Dialed back over again as it was same 6” off to the right.
Figuring scope was broken, I bought a new Nikon Slug Hunter as a replacement. When I went to take the rings apart to replace the scope, I realized the rings were as loose as can be, in that direction. Weird, I couldn’t tighten them anymore whatsover, but they came unscrewed with literally less than finger tight effort. They were aluminum rings. My guess is the rings or the screws stretched in some way? To make a very long story short - no more aluminum rings or mounts for me, only steel now & zero problems.
The next year same problem, missed again (wounded at only 15 yds actually). Checked rings to see if they were loose, tight as heck, none of the screws would budge (couldn’t tighten any at all). Dialed back over again as it was same 6” off to the right.
Figuring scope was broken, I bought a new Nikon Slug Hunter as a replacement. When I went to take the rings apart to replace the scope, I realized the rings were as loose as can be, in that direction. Weird, I couldn’t tighten them anymore whatsover, but they came unscrewed with literally less than finger tight effort. They were aluminum rings. My guess is the rings or the screws stretched in some way? To make a very long story short - no more aluminum rings or mounts for me, only steel now & zero problems.
tkd4life
Ultimate Member
Can someone expand on this. I shoot at 100 between 20 and 24x all the time. I’ve seen benchrest guys shoot 100 yds at 32x. I get less is more when mirage is an issue, but otherwise I don’t get it.
dreadpirate
Ultimate Member
The rings it came with; a package deal. I plan on replacing with Warne rings.
Good call, great rings.
I know steel is harder than aluminum, but I’m not a gunsmith or a metallurgist. I can only guess that after 20+ years of shooting those punishing slugs, the aluminum rings stretched or fatigued? This was just my best guess as to what happened to my setup. Maybe another member can more intelligently confirm my findings, or debunk them. Anyway, that was my 2 pennies. Good luck to you here on out.
I know steel is harder than aluminum, but I’m not a gunsmith or a metallurgist. I can only guess that after 20+ years of shooting those punishing slugs, the aluminum rings stretched or fatigued? This was just my best guess as to what happened to my setup. Maybe another member can more intelligently confirm my findings, or debunk them. Anyway, that was my 2 pennies. Good luck to you here on out.
Major03
Ultimate Member
A 1/2 MOA gun shooting 3 MOA ammo will yield 3 inch groups.
Get some quality ammo and report back now that your screws are tightened correctly.
Get some quality ammo and report back now that your screws are tightened correctly.
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,107
These have been hit in various posts, but I will redundently sum up ( Generalized for all bolt rifles, and some points for some other types .
Automatic default response
Properly tighten everthing related to scope mounting .
Properly tighten action screws( aka hold on the stock).
Quick eyeballing for blatent problems with crown and bedding.
Test with ammo of known accuracy potential . If FGMM is available, it is the go to.
Still problem ?
Swap for scope known to give good grouping on another rifle.
Still problem ?
Get serious about bedding .
Really look at crown . Not out of line to preemptively recrown .
Still problem ?
Either bad bbl, or action out of spec .
Automatic default response
Properly tighten everthing related to scope mounting .
Properly tighten action screws( aka hold on the stock).
Quick eyeballing for blatent problems with crown and bedding.
Test with ammo of known accuracy potential . If FGMM is available, it is the go to.
Still problem ?
Swap for scope known to give good grouping on another rifle.
Still problem ?
Get serious about bedding .
Really look at crown . Not out of line to preemptively recrown .
Still problem ?
Either bad bbl, or action out of spec .
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,107
Fire Lap vs old school abrasive = Ford vs Chevy .
