This would not work so well, we need something more substantive in writing
SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12
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This would not work so well, we need something more substantive in writing
krucam
Ultimate Member
We NEED to remember Woollard and other cases, as only a Court based resolution will be lasting in this state...a new AG, a new Governor, letting Sheriffs decide, having the General Assy accept Self Defense as G&S...all transitory.
Fuggem, take them to court, sue them for Civil Rights violations. I'm ready for a fight....
There is a thread out here somewhere on the Woollard case that is now going on....
Exactly when the rules are written down in easily understandable ink, instead of lawyer speak. It will be a good day for all.
We NEED to remember Woollard and other cases, as only a Court based resolution will be lasting in this state...a new AG, a new Governor, letting Sheriffs decide, having the General Assy accept Self Defense as G&S...all transitory.
Fuggem, take them to court, sue them for Civil Rights violations. I'm ready for a fight....There is a thread out here somewhere on the Woollard case that is now going on....
So where is the "flood" of willing participants?
Dan-o
fly in the wall
Any updates? BTW just got my letter today, Im a designated collector! Woo
krucam
Ultimate Member
Nice bait...if you were referencing the flood I never mentioned or the willing participants I never mentioned in what you "bolded" from my comments...well...
Thousands and counting post-Woollard....look to the Wisconsin and San Diego cases for guidance...and there will be more.
ezliving
Besieger
Welcome to MDS. I use Google news alerts on 2A keywords and I often find their links taking me to your blog. You are doing a great job.
krucam
Ultimate Member
Absolutely concur....love his blog...
It wasn't "bait", it was however, a rhetorical question. Where is the "flood" (my word) of MARYLANDERS?
krucam
Ultimate Member
My words: Fuggem, take them to court, sue them for Civil Rights violations. I'm ready for a fight....
No where was flood mentioned. It was a rally cry. I will personally go to court post Woollard if there is a problem. I encourage everyone to do the same WHEN this happens.
Where you're taking those original comments and my explanation that shouldn't be necessary, is beyond me.
The possible exception is if YOU are trying to rally those on the fence to fight (which I whole heartedly encourage) when you reference those MARYLANDERS, in which case I would apologize and we both go on our merry ways.
This has for some strange reason gone too far off track and this is an important thread that shouldn't be locked. Enough already.
Peace out...
Apology accepted, and I too apologize for not being clear. I hear a lot of "sabre rattling", but it is time to start flooding the system with: correspondence, legal suits, "take a lib to the range", open holster rallies... Not post Woollard, but IMHO, now.
No harm, brother.
There in lies the crux of the issue.
A lot of average joes, just don't have the money right now, not having a job, holidays coming up, to toss money at a maybe.
Post wollard may entice them because of a chance for victory. Look what happened with Heller. After a win, the very next day McDonald was started.
After a McDonald win, the gates were open for this new found right [in the home].
Once wollard gets a definition of self defense approved, look at the average joes chiming in.
Bob was only governor, not king. Keep a little faith, as it helps you to push with the rest of us, rather than throw up your hands and go back to the TV.
Unfortunately we live in a time were most people can only give a damn for about 30 minutes before they are distracted by something else. Whether it has been programmed by watching too many 30 minute sitcoms where a resolution comes right after the commercial or something more sinister, I do not know. I do know that the participation at the Open Holster Rallies is/was diminishing. It would help to have one of these cases settled in our favor, followed by a series of others, so as to keep people engaged. I eagerly await a series of rulings that can be used as a rallying call.
I doubt that this case will be settled before the start of the 2011 General Assembly session (Mid Feb). It will be interesting to see what bills get introduced in light of current lawsuits pending here and around the US. I expect that there will be two camps sponsoring bills, one to trying to keep the lid nailed down, and the other prying on the crow bar with all they have.
Thus, I expect the answer will come from the Courts and not the GA.
-Boxcab
As an average Joe, I woke up one day and realized my home and the safety of my family was under attack. I applied for a CCW under legitimate auspices and was turned down due to lack of "good and substantial" reasons, when all my life I've been told that here in America, we had the "Right to bear arms". As a child, I watched my average Joe father, being pressured by the Mob, do what "needed to be done", for as he put it, he "didn't need no damned permit" to protect his family, for it was his "God-given right" to do so.
Point being, our Fathers and their Fathers and their Father's Fathers, knew what the Second Amendment meant, and most of them had nothing more than an eighth grade education. To them, needing a permit was akin to someone saying you needed permission to breathe. In addition, what does it cost to: write a letter, attend a General Assembly Session, wear an empty holster, etc...? I'm not asking people to spend money they don't have.
"There in lies the crux of the issue."
Patrick
MSI Executive Member
We don't want a flood of cases right now. We just need a few good ones. Keep in mind that a good cause lost with a bad argument is precedent for other such arguments. It is not insurmountable, but it increases time, effort, cost and frustration. It also gives rise to many more bad decisions that rely on it.
We're doing about all we can from where we all sit. Education is going to be key and that is our role.
As for the legislature - that's the old way when we had to beg for our rights. No more. We do not want the GA to pass liberalized carry rules that make us indebted to them any longer.
We want them indebted to us, as the Founders envisioned it.
We're doing about all we can from where we all sit. Education is going to be key and that is our role.
As for the legislature - that's the old way when we had to beg for our rights. No more. We do not want the GA to pass liberalized carry rules that make us indebted to them any longer.
We want them indebted to us, as the Founders envisioned it.
As it stands now, we will be relegated to what Chicago is going through. Yes, you'll win Woollard, and then Gansler and company will throw another boulder in the road, and then another lawsuit, and another rock...
Build pressure now, so that when Woollard wins it sticks - period.
Or not.
Patrick
MSI Executive Member
A few things:
I absolutely understand the cynicism. Also I do expect MD to play some games. That said, each of these cases tightens a noose around regulation. Take a look at the demands on the state in Woollard. Pretty clear. The intent is to force recognition of a fundamental right to carry for self defense. If successful, that draws a line that is tough to cross.
MD will play with that line. But once it is defined, breaking it means we get to sue for more than "recognition". We get punitive damages.
Look back in your memory. All those civil rights cases that resulted in cash awards for the oppressed? That will be you. Once the state is forced to pay monetary awards for their gun control, it will stop.
For evidence, look to San Diego. They arrested a man for legal open carry and rather than go to court they simply settled by giving him a $35K check. This was last month. Wisconsin paid $10K for legal open carry and Madison recently failed to learn that lesson. They are already backtracking and looking for a way out. Unfortunately they are trying to make a disorderly conduct charge in it's place. When that fails, they will pay even more.
How long do you think harassment will continue when B'more city residents realize they can make a cool few thousand getting charged by the cops?
Heller and McDonald broke ground and established a foundation. These current cases all aim to build the structure that everyone lives under. We won't win it all, but what we win will be solid.
I absolutely understand the cynicism. Also I do expect MD to play some games. That said, each of these cases tightens a noose around regulation. Take a look at the demands on the state in Woollard. Pretty clear. The intent is to force recognition of a fundamental right to carry for self defense. If successful, that draws a line that is tough to cross.
MD will play with that line. But once it is defined, breaking it means we get to sue for more than "recognition". We get punitive damages.
Look back in your memory. All those civil rights cases that resulted in cash awards for the oppressed? That will be you. Once the state is forced to pay monetary awards for their gun control, it will stop.
For evidence, look to San Diego. They arrested a man for legal open carry and rather than go to court they simply settled by giving him a $35K check. This was last month. Wisconsin paid $10K for legal open carry and Madison recently failed to learn that lesson. They are already backtracking and looking for a way out. Unfortunately they are trying to make a disorderly conduct charge in it's place. When that fails, they will pay even more.
How long do you think harassment will continue when B'more city residents realize they can make a cool few thousand getting charged by the cops?
Heller and McDonald broke ground and established a foundation. These current cases all aim to build the structure that everyone lives under. We won't win it all, but what we win will be solid.
Understood, but as Grandpappy used to say, "The sunza b!#ches had no right taken em (our rights) to start with". To me, it ain't about the money. It's about free men living free, without some jackwad telling me how many scoops I can have on my icecream cone.
The Supreme Court has already said the people are under no obligation to follw an unconstitutional law.
http://patriotsforamerica.ning.com/forum/topics/no-one-is-bound-to-obey-an
http://patriotsforamerica.ning.com/forum/topics/no-one-is-bound-to-obey-an
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