First AR15 for <1k

Jimbob2.0 · May 1, 2017

I don't think I have over $1k in any of my ARs. Most are built from lower budget parts, Delton, Palmetto, J&T/Doublestar. Franken parts. Someday I will buy an actual Colt just to have one.

I run the heck out of the cheaper guns with no issues. Just check them for headspace and make sure everything is properly staked. MY Delton still is less than 3/4" on mixed ammo, 1/2 inch on high end hand loads at 100 yards after several thousand rounds. Palmettos haven't been as good but very serviceable on brass and steel case.

If I was stepping up a little more I would get a Doublestar Constant Carry or a Ruger.

DaemonAssassin · May 2, 2017

lazarus said:
Problems can still happen and I am not exactly thousands of rounds deep, but so far the only issue I had was a double feed on one mag. Likely improperly loaded mag combined with improper magazine insertion (it wasn't all the way in).

I am 100% positive it had nothing to do with the firearm. Otherwise at least 300 odd rounds fired through a home built AR-15 and an AR pistol. That isn't 0 out of 5000 reliability yet, but there is nothing inherently less reliable about a self assembled AR-15 (or any firearm) over a factory output if you know what you are doing and choose quality parts. In fact I'd argue a home built one is likely to be more reliable if you know what you are doing as you are likely to take more care than the assembly line workers are at assembling them and then doing QA of the finished product.

There are a few AR's that I have assembled for people that are currently above 10k through them, with zero issues that can be attributed to the assembled rifle. The issues that have occurred are due to ammo (not in spec or running weak/hot) or the mag is the failure point (not inserted correctly, spring issue, feed lips issue, or other things). If you use quality parts, and it is assembled correctly, it will be ultra reliable. At that point the failure nodes become lack lubrication/cleaning, mags, and ammo.

I have seen factory assembled AR's run as flawlessly as one of the AR's I have assembled and I have seen factory built AR's that are best used as a doorstop, due to the lack or reliability and the MFG refuses to do anything about it. The ones that don't run well will not be named, but when somebody asks if they are a good brand, I'll refer them to a different one.

The one AR I purchased somehow went out to door with a defect in the barrel nut. It is a good thing I tried to mount a quad rail on it within the first month I owned it. The MFG issued an RMA and had it back to me within a week and a half with a new barrel nut, mounted my rail, and threw in some swag.

The factory QA is dependent on the the MFG and if the person that day is on their Friday or their Monday or if it is their last week on the job. I have seen horrific things occur with AR's that by all rights, never should have happened if the QA was doing it's job. How does a BCG shatter into 3 parts after the 3rd round is fired, after it was purchased NIB from a gun store? I saw that one happen and it wasn't pretty.

My point is: Do you trust the QA at a factory more than you trust yourself doing the QA on something that puts the equivalent of a hand grenade 3-6 inches from your face?

DaemonAssassin · May 2, 2017

lazarus said:
If it makes you feel better my first AR I've been changing out parts like crazy chasing weight loss. It wasn't super porky, but a 20" HBAR does weigh a lot. I started at 9lbs7oz and I've chased it down to 9lbs1.8oz with some stuff like an aluminum buffer nut, aluminum end plate, lighter butt stock and so on. New scope mount, gas block and scope are on the list as the final things (3, 1.2 and 1.6oz respectively).

A lot of it is lessons learned. Get the "right parts" from the start. They were all nice and reliable and good and fine for a bench rest rifle, but I want and have used my 20" HBAR as a hunting rifle and nine and a half pounds gets kind of heavy in the field (call it 10 with a mag and 8 rounds in it) after all day of still hunting. 9lbs with a mag and 8 rounds sounds a lot nicer.

It also made me much more cognizant of parts choice in building my AR pistol as well as the 16" HBAR upper I just finished, like going skeletonized, but still steel gas block, lighter rider of my red dot, etc. so I don't end up spending money twice. I don't need to pour out money to get a feather, but when spending 10-15% more overall gets me a final build that works just as well and is 10-15% lighter...I'll trade dollars for ounces.

It is funny that you are chasing weight loss. I have done the same thing, but I am doing it differently. The 20" will stay the way it is weight wise, because of the intended purpose for that build (precision varmint control). The Bambi Slayer has lost 4-8 oz because I changed the hand guard on it. You go from an AR-10 with 20 rounds of 165gr 308 to a 300BLK with 20 rounds of 110gr and tell me that shaving weight on the 300BLK isn't worth it. That AR-10 weighs in with a full mag at around 12-13#. The 300BLK on the other hand weighs in at around 7.5-8# with sling, scope, scope mount, 20 rounds of ammo, and the hand stop. The 300BLK is coming in around the same weight as a lighter bolt action with a scope and 5 rounds of ammo in it, but I am running a semi-auto and have 4 times the ammo on board.

My personal misgivings about you running a 223 for deer hunting aside, you will not shave any real weight, until you drop to a 16" barrel. That is where you will see massive weight loss. It doesn't matter what hand guard you put on or what skeletonizing you do, those mods are just like applying band aids to an arterial wound that needs major surgery. If you are set on keeping the 20" barrel, look into fluting the barrel as much as you can, without destroying the structural stability of the barrel. If you can't flute the barrel and want to keep a 20" barrel, look at building a new upper with a heavily fluted barrel to shave some weight from the get go. Otherwise getting a 16" barrel and fluting it will shave a massive amount of weight.

If you want to check out the 300BLK, let me know. I think you might be a tad surprised at how light it is, even while empty. I handed it to my dad the way you would hand somebody a sword, using the fingertips. When he took it out of my hands, he almost threw it into the ceiling, because he thought it was going to be a lot heavier than it actually was. He was absolutely floored with how light it was, versus what he thought it was going to be, from just looking at it.

rockstarr · May 2, 2017

keep saving until you get about 1350-1400.

Buy an LWRC DI and be done with it.

Aside from an optic or iron sights, The rifle practically done right out of the box. No buying bolt carrier groups, stocks, triggers, rails, charging handles,etc...

When you look at everything the rifle has, the extra money spent and time saved will be worth it. I love mine.

Several of my friends have them and all of us shoot quite accurate with them as well. ( which says something due to me being a piss poor shot)

Alphabrew · May 2, 2017

rockstarr said:
keep saving until you get about 1350-1400.

Buy an LWRC DI and be done with it.

Aside from an optic or iron sights, The rifle practically done right out of the box. No buying bolt carrier groups, stocks, triggers, rails, charging handles,etc...

When you look at everything the rifle has, the extra money spent and time saved will be worth it. I love mine.

Several of my friends have them and all of us shoot quite accurate with them as well. ( which says something due to me being a piss poor shot)

A guy at my gym just purchased a direct impingement LWRC and loves it.

byf43 · May 2, 2017

OP, FWIW, I own three ARs.
All Colt.

R6601 (Sporter Match HBAR - Pre-Klinton Ban rifle. 1:7 twist A2 configuration. Tack driver.) Used in NRA High Power Rifle Matches
AR-6721 A3 1:9 twist. Verrrrrrrrrrrrrry accurate with 55 gr and 69 grain.
LE-6920 1:7 twist. Verrrrrrrrrrrrry accurate with 55 gr and 69 grain.

All of them shoot MOA or better at 100 yards. Actually, sub-MOA at 100 yards.

For a first AR-15, you can't go wrong with the Colt.

The ONLY thing I've done (mechanically) to change these rifles/carbines, is to add a "Raptor" charge handle.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...trous-charging-handle-assembly-ar-15-aluminum

Bountied · May 2, 2017

DaemonAssassin said:
I bought my first one off the shelf at a store. As much as I love that AR, I wish I had built one from the ground up. I have changed out so much on that thing, it isn't even funny.

My first AR was a DPMS, the only thing that's original on it now is the receiver and the takedown pins... My other AR's I built because it's just easier.

gunismyfriend · May 2, 2017

rockstarr said:
keep saving until you get about 1350-1400.

Buy an LWRC DI and be done with it.

Aside from an optic or iron sights, The rifle practically done right out of the box. No buying bolt carrier groups, stocks, triggers, rails, charging handles,etc...

When you look at everything the rifle has, the extra money spent and time saved will be worth it. I love mine.

Is it true that all LWRC AR15 are hbar? I see some good deals online. Thanks.

AlanInSilverSpring · May 2, 2017

Not trying to hijack but I'm curious what people think about this Delton. I have virtually no experience with ar's but after about 700 rounds through it have had zero issues with mine and am very happy with it. Can be found much cheaper but figured I'd give United Guns a free plug as I love them too. http://store.unitedgunshop.com/prod...l-m-lok-moe-handguard-collapsible-stock-black

HordesOfKailas · May 2, 2017

If you're a tinkerer and like things just so, build your own. But if you'll be happy with anything AR, you'll probably be fine with the previous recommendations. Go with a big, well known company if you buy pre-built.

For the record, I have two, both self-built. See no reason to buy a complete one as I love to fiddle with things. Would just end up wasting loads of money.

lazarus · May 2, 2017

DaemonAssassin said:
It is funny that you are chasing weight loss. I have done the same thing, but I am doing it differently. The 20" will stay the way it is weight wise, because of the intended purpose for that build (precision varmint control). The Bambi Slayer has lost 4-8 oz because I changed the hand guard on it. You go from an AR-10 with 20 rounds of 165gr 308 to a 300BLK with 20 rounds of 110gr and tell me that shaving weight on the 300BLK isn't worth it. That AR-10 weighs in with a full mag at around 12-13#. The 300BLK on the other hand weighs in at around 7.5-8# with sling, scope, scope mount, 20 rounds of ammo, and the hand stop. The 300BLK is coming in around the same weight as a lighter bolt action with a scope and 5 rounds of ammo in it, but I am running a semi-auto and have 4 times the ammo on board.

My personal misgivings about you running a 223 for deer hunting aside, you will not shave any real weight, until you drop to a 16" barrel. That is where you will see massive weight loss. It doesn't matter what hand guard you put on or what skeletonizing you do, those mods are just like applying band aids to an arterial wound that needs major surgery. If you are set on keeping the 20" barrel, look into fluting the barrel as much as you can, without destroying the structural stability of the barrel. If you can't flute the barrel and want to keep a 20" barrel, look at building a new upper with a heavily fluted barrel to shave some weight from the get go. Otherwise getting a 16" barrel and fluting it will shave a massive amount of weight.

If you want to check out the 300BLK, let me know. I think you might be a tad surprised at how light it is, even while empty. I handed it to my dad the way you would hand somebody a sword, using the fingertips. When he took it out of my hands, he almost threw it into the ceiling, because he thought it was going to be a lot heavier than it actually was. He was absolutely floored with how light it was, versus what he thought it was going to be, from just looking at it.

Actually going 6.5 Grendel, probably an 18" for a deer rifle as one of my next builds. The 20" .223 wylde is a bit more half hearted deer rifle. I mean, I fully intend to use it on one, but I'd rather carry my Sako .308 for deer hunting.

I'll never get it as light, but I do want to get it under 9lbs. Based on the couple of other parts I want to swap I should have it down to about 8lbs10oz.

My 16" .223 wylde with bushnell trs-25 and a streamlight 1l on it tips the scales (same lower as the 20") at 6lbs 11oz.

I figure a good 18" 6.5 Grendel build with a medium weight barrel would likely land me around 7.5lbs or so with a 3-9x40 scope on there.

All weights without magazine and ammo.

DaemonAssassin · May 3, 2017

lazarus said:
Actually going 6.5 Grendel, probably an 18" for a deer rifle as one of my next builds. The 20" .223 wylde is a bit more half hearted deer rifle. I mean, I fully intend to use it on one, but I'd rather carry my Sako .308 for deer hunting.

I'll never get it as light, but I do want to get it under 9lbs. Based on the couple of other parts I want to swap I should have it down to about 8lbs10oz.

My 16" .223 wylde with bushnell trs-25 and a streamlight 1l on it tips the scales (same lower as the 20") at 6lbs 11oz.

I figure a good 18" 6.5 Grendel build with a medium weight barrel would likely land me around 7.5lbs or so with a 3-9x40 scope on there.

All weights without magazine and ammo.

If you are smart with your build, you will keep in mind that the HBAR requirement only applies to 223/556. All other calibers do not need to be HBAR. You can save some weight by keeping that in mind. The big thing I'd keep in mind is the BCM KMR handguard. You are going to pay for it, but the weight savings are relatively good. A MFT Minimalist stock is a good choice too.

https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Mi...ink_Minimalist_Sto_p/mft-battlelink-stock.htm

Biggfoot44 · May 3, 2017

My first AR was the Standard Sportster ( the Gov't profile counterpart to Bfy43's ). Likewise MOA in stock form . Alas, post '13 , an A2 profile 20in bbl is not an option for you.

Just to throw another option out there - Complete lower assy , combined with an "on sale" upper assy from one of the usual suspects. One of my stamp guns is built around a complete CMMG lower assy.

But for the OP's criteria -

Colt 6721 is the yardstick by which everything else is measured. And well within OP's budget.

If you decide to heck with the dancing Pony, you would rather get decent rifle for low price upfront, to heck with resale value - Windham HBC current at $600- ish is great value at that price point. I won't go out on a limb to claim as good as 6721, but the quality can be mentioned in the same sentence as 6721 .

Added- For 99% of users , will find no meaningful differences between 1:7, 1:8, and 1:9 . I would not obsess between those and pay more attention to other factors.

rockstarr · May 3, 2017

Biggfoot44 said:
My first AR was the Standard Sportster ( the Gov't profile counterpart to Bfy43's ). Likewise MOA in stock form . Alas, post '13 , an A2 profile 20in bbl is not an option for you.

Just to throw another option out there - Complete lower assy , combined with an "on sale" upper assy from one of the usual suspects. One of my stamp guns is built around a complete CMMG lower assy.

But for the OP's criteria -

Colt 6721 is the yardstick by which everything else is measured. And well within OP's budget.

If you decide to heck with the dancing Pony, you would rather get decent rifle for low price upfront, to heck with resale value - Windham HBC current at $600- ish is great value at that price point. I won't go out on a limb to claim as good as 6721, but the quality can be mentioned in the same sentence as 6721 .

Added- For 99% of users , will find no meaningful differences between 1:7, 1:8, and 1:9 . I would not obsess between those and pay more attention to other factors.[/QUOTE]

solid truth here

sleepingdino · May 3, 2017

new to guns?

If you are truly new to guns and are not sure you will be putting 1000's of rounds downrange, then just buy a name brand AR. Don't buy a cheap Colt that is simply rebranded. You can always resell it if your interest fades. For most, the gun becomes a safe queen. If you turn into a serious gun guy, then you have a great starting point for upgrades.

Building your own AR is fun, educational, but time consuming. Like reloading, you will get better value but end up spending more in aggregate because who has just one gun?

omegared24 · May 3, 2017

I'm in the 6721 camp. Buy it, shoot the hell out of it and familiarize yourself with it. Then start buying parts for your own build. They are getting ridiculously cheap and it is completely inappropriate to own just one AR.

gunismyfriend · May 3, 2017

sleepingdino said:
If you are truly new to guns and are not sure you will be putting 1000's of rounds downrange, then just buy a name brand AR. Don't buy a cheap Colt that is simply rebranded. You can always resell it if your interest fades. For most, the gun becomes a safe queen. If you turn into a serious gun guy, then you have a great starting point for upgrades.

Thanks, this is exactly me, as I'm in my 7-day waiting period for my 1st handgun. Though I do plan to shoot significant number of rounds (>500) given time.
Would LWRC be considered a good name brand? I found their DI can be had for just over $1k, and having almost all accessories.

dreadpirate · May 3, 2017

Biggfoot44 said:
My first AR was the Standard Sportster ( the Gov't profile counterpart to Bfy43's ). Likewise MOA in stock form . Alas, post '13 , an A2 profile 20in bbl is not an option for you.

Just to throw another option out there - Complete lower assy , combined with an "on sale" upper assy from one of the usual suspects. One of my stamp guns is built around a complete CMMG lower assy.

But for the OP's criteria -

Colt 6721 is the yardstick by which everything else is measured. And well within OP's budget.

If you decide to heck with the dancing Pony, you would rather get decent rifle for low price upfront, to heck with resale value - Windham HBC current at $600- ish is great value at that price point. I won't go out on a limb to claim as good as 6721, but the quality can be mentioned in the same sentence as 6721 .

Added- For 99% of users , will find no meaningful differences between 1:7, 1:8, and 1:9 . I would not obsess between those and pay more attention to other factors.

This ^^^ all of this ^^^^

rockstarr · May 4, 2017

gunismyfriend said:
Thanks, this is exactly me, as I'm in my 7-day waiting period for my 1st handgun. Though I do plan to shoot significant number of rounds (>500) given time.
Would LWRC be considered a good name brand? I found their DI can be had for just over $1k, and having almost all accessories.

yes, in my opinion. Made in Cambridge Maryland.

lazarus · May 5, 2017

DaemonAssassin said:
If you are smart with your build, you will keep in mind that the HBAR requirement only applies to 223/556. All other calibers do not need to be HBAR. You can save some weight by keeping that in mind. The big thing I'd keep in mind is the BCM KMR handguard. You are going to pay for it, but the weight savings are relatively good. A MFT Minimalist stock is a good choice too.

https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Mi...ink_Minimalist_Sto_p/mft-battlelink-stock.htm

For a hunting rifle? Yeah going to go for a lightweight or maybe medium barrel profile. Also I haven't tried the minimalist stock, but the ATI tactistock I have on my AR-15 is actually a tenth of two of an ounce lighter, a little cheaper and very similar to an m4 style.

First AR15 for <1k

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

Why should we Free BSD?

Why should we Free BSD?

Major Deplorable

Binary male Lesbian

SCSC Life/NRA Patron Life

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Banned

Still learning

Ultimate Member

Why should we Free BSD?

Ultimate Member

Major Deplorable

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Major Deplorable

Ultimate Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics