ATF rejected my 5320.20 to MD for AR-15 SBR, My response

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • ericoak

    don't drop Aboma on me
    Feb 20, 2010
    6,806
    Howard County
    I am sending my response below. Wanted some input before sending it to make sure I am explaining it correctly.

    Dear Terry Whittington Jr,
    I recently received two 5320.20s disapprovals for my AR-15 SBRs that I would like to take to MD. MD law is quite confusing, but I believe the wrong criteria was applied resulting in an incorrect disapproval. Before going over the criteria, I would also point to a bulletin (included with this letter) published by Maryland State Police which says that short barreled rifles and shotguns are illegal if they meet the definition of a copycat weapon. As I will prove below, my AR-15 SRBs do not meet this definition. MSP bulletin also say that any SBRs offered for sale by a dealer must be on the handgun roster, which would imply that SBRs on the roster are legal for sale by dealers in MD. I am not a dealer so the roster requirement doesn’t apply. The ATF has also approved many AR-15s and AKs in the same configuration as mine in MD this year alone, and can be purchased from MD dealers.

    The definition of a handgun in MD is given in CR 4-201 included below:
    Title 4, Section 2, 4-201
    (c) Handgun.-
    (1) "Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.
    (2) "Handgun" includes a short-barreled shotgun and a short-barreled rifle.

    I am indicating in red below why my gun does not meet each of the criteria. This is based off the criteria list you mailed me with my disapproval. I am including the entire section of 4-201 with my letter.

    Maryland Defintion:
    Assault weapon. – “Assault weapon” means:
    (1) An assault long gun; Under MD state law, SBRs are considered handguns (not pistols) so it cannot be an assault long gun since it is not a long gun.
    (2) An assault pistol; Under MD state law, SBRs are not pistols, only handguns. They are not the same thing. All pistols are handguns, but not all handguns are pistols.
    (3) A copy cat weapon.—
    a. Copycat weapon means:
    i. A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and has two of the following: I only have 1 of the following which is less than required 2
    1. Folding stock No
    2. Grenade or flare launcher; or No
    3. Flash suppressor Yes
    ii. A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds; My gun does not have a fixed magazine.
    iii. A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 29 inches. My gun has an OAL of 30.5” which is greater than 29.
    iv. A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds; My gun is not a pistol (only a handgun) and no fixed magazine
    v. A semiautomatic shotgun that has a folding stock; No shotgun or folding stock
    vi. A shotgun with a revolving cylinder; No shotgun and no rotating cylinder
    b. “Copycat weapon” does not include an assault long gun or an assault pistol
    As you can see, the two guns I submitted a 5320.20 do not meeting the definition a banned assault weapon and are therefore legal to bring to MD. The 2013 MD laws were poorly written by people who know nothing about firearms and as a result you practically have to be an attorney to decipher the meaning.
     

    Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    Lots of marbles on the dance floor for this one.

    What are the OAL's of the SBRs? When did you SBR or purchase these? Barrel profile?
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,486
    Westminster USA
    A member from VA was rejected as well. I think it was Rouchna.

    Funny thing is MD law says an SBR is legal if Federally registered.

    Also the handgun roster requirement was removed by the GA.
     

    ericoak

    don't drop Aboma on me
    Feb 20, 2010
    6,806
    Howard County
    Lots of marbles on the dance floor for this one.

    What are the OAL's of the SBRs? When did you SBR or purchase these? Barrel profile?

    30.5", over the 29" requirement. I was told HBAR doesn't matter for an AR-15 SBR, but I have heavy barrels that I can put on if necessary.
     

    ericoak

    don't drop Aboma on me
    Feb 20, 2010
    6,806
    Howard County
    A member from VA was rejected as well. I think it was Rouchna.

    Funny thing is MD law says an SBR is legal if Federally registered.

    Also the handgun roster requirement was removed by the GA.

    Yep I updated my word document with the new bulletin language (bulletin LD-FRU-15-004) which says exactly what you just said.
     

    Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    Reach out to MD State police and see if you can get them to send a letter indicating your SBR' configuration is ok in MD. Call the Firearms division in Reisterstown, (410) 653-4500 .
     

    rouchna

    Defund the ATF
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 25, 2009
    5,969
    Virginia
    A member from VA was rejected as well. I think it was Rouchna.

    Funny thing is MD law says an SBR is legal if Federally registered.

    Yes, it was me. The funny thing is they approved some but rejected others. No rhyme or reason behind their decision.

    I sent him a copy of the statute but the BATFE refused to budge. RIF

    Sent them the copy of the statute that Swinokur sent me along with a new Form 20. No go.

    Did you tell them the ATF approves the same configuration for dozens of people living in the state?

    I did. Still got a disapproved.

    nope-i think he gave up.

    they are idiots

    I did give up. I even got on the phone with them and asked them to look into the statute. They pretty much told me I was not familiar with MD law and that I should be the one to re-read the statute.
    I got tired of the BS and just accepted the fact that I couldn't bring some of my toys to MD to shoot with friends.

    Best of luck. I hope you have better luck than I did.
     

    ericoak

    don't drop Aboma on me
    Feb 20, 2010
    6,806
    Howard County
    Yes, it was me. The funny thing is they approved some but rejected others. No rhyme or reason behind their decision.



    Sent them the copy of the statute that Swinokur sent me along with a new Form 20. No go.



    I did. Still got a disapproved.



    I did give up. I even got on the phone with them and asked them to look into the statute. They pretty much told me I was not familiar with MD law and that I should be the one to re-read the statute.
    I got tired of the BS and just accepted the fact that I couldn't bring some of my toys to MD to shoot with friends.

    Best of luck. I hope you have better luck than I did.

    Did you send them the statue (the one they sent me) edited to show why every single criteria didn't apply?
     

    ericoak

    don't drop Aboma on me
    Feb 20, 2010
    6,806
    Howard County
    Don't let my negative experience stop you from trying. I may have just dealt with an inexperienced examiner.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I got Terry Whittington Jr.

    I'm going to try and get MSP on my side, probably the best way to go.

    Was also considering repeatably sending it till it gets through.
     

    rouchna

    Defund the ATF
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 25, 2009
    5,969
    Virginia
    I got Terry Whittington Jr.



    I'm going to try and get MSP on my side, probably the best way to go.



    Was also considering repeatably sending it till it gets through.



    Let me know if you are successful. It may get me to try again.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    275,553
    Messages
    7,286,156
    Members
    33,476
    Latest member
    Spb5205

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom