Raping of the land

JamesDong · Nov 21, 2020

I took the atv to the other side of my property today, shame to see what happened over the mountain. The buyer gave the sellers his word that he wouldn't clear cut when he bought a few years ago. Obviously ruined this year BUT he seeded with what will be hay and it's already starting to sprout. Owner and I get along fine and he gave me permission to do as I please on his land so next year the deer should be back in droves.

I took the hawks pic from my deck, redtail?????

28Shooter · Nov 21, 2020

Makes you want to cry...

Have the new owners taken any steps to prevent soil erosion and sediment runoff while they wait for their hay to grow? That looks to be hilly ground and runoff could be devastating to local trout streams and creeks.

eruby · Nov 21, 2020

Dutch Engstrom approves.

JamesDong · Nov 21, 2020

28Shooter said:
Makes you want to cry...

Have the new owners taken any steps to prevent soil erosion and sediment runoff while they wait for their hay to grow? That looks to be hilly ground and runoff could be devastating to local trout streams and creeks.

These pics are on the Clinch Mountain just above the Clinch River, I own a small portion of both by comparison. I'm not too concerned about runoff since it's beginning to sprout and its on the backside of the mountain.
It's his land and a 150 acre hay field is far better than 300 houses. Hopefully the deer will love the fresh grass.

outrider58 · Nov 21, 2020

So, I'm a bit confused by the thread title.

And yes. Red tail.

Antarctica · Nov 21, 2020

It looks like ass now, but the greatest power of nature is that of renewal. In 5 years time it will be the equivalent of the burn area. Open space is not all bad.

Biggfoot44 · Nov 21, 2020

Ok , fill me in .

Creating "small" open spaces is a game management tool , to provide edge habitat and variety of grasses , for improved habitat vs solid mature forrest . Those would be more typically 5- 50 acres , but 150ac isn't very far out of line.

OP states the grass is already started , and doesn't expect serious erosion .

Yeah , it would be a shock to see it unexpectedly. But ( presuming the grass fully takes w/o erosion issues ), am I missing something terrible ?

Given the preponderance of surrounding woods in the Pic , and the proposed use as ( hayfield ? Pasture ? ) , I would guesstimate the wildlife effects long term to at least break even , if not be improved .

outrider58 · Nov 21, 2020

Biggfoot44 said:
Ok , fill me in .

Creating "small" open spaces is a game management tool , to provide edge habitat and variety of grasses , for improved habitat vs solid mature forrest . Those would be more typically 5- 50 acres , but 150ac isn't very far out of line.

OP states the grass is already started , and doesn't expect serious erosion .

Yeah , it would be a shock to see it unexpectedly. But ( presuming the grass fully takes w/o erosion issues ), am I missing something terrible ?

Given the preponderance of surrounding woods in the Pic , and the proposed use as ( hayfield ? Pasture ? ) , I would guesstimate the wildlife effects long term to at least break even , if not be improved .

Agreed.

The only worry I can see is allowing invasive plant species to take over, should this plan fall out of enthusiasm. Even still, CRP is a good thing too.

JamesDong · Nov 22, 2020

outrider58 said:
So, I'm a bit confused by the thread title.

And yes. Red tail.

Simple, he didn't leave as much as a stick. Sold off MANY semi's of timber, that's OK trees are a crop. IMO he should have either thinned the forest or left patches of trees.... which he didn't. His lumbermen said that the forest was long overdue to be cut but hey what do I know?

I doubt any invasive garbage will find its way there other than via birdshit.

budman93 · Nov 22, 2020

JamesDong said:
Simple, he didn't leave as much as a stick. Sold off MANY semi's of timber, that's OK trees are a crop. IMO he should have either thinned the forest or left patches of trees.... which he didn't. His lumbermen said that the forest was long overdue to be cut but hey what do I know?

I doubt any invasive garbage will find its way there other than via birdshit.

Bottom line is its his land and he can do whatever with it. The previous owners wishes are irrelevant.

JamesDong · Nov 22, 2020

budman93 said:
Bottom line is its his land and he can do whatever with it. The previous owners wishes are irrelevant.

This is correct 100%. Like I said he and I get along fine and he granted me permission to use his land as I like.

We all have our druthers, mine would be he thinned it. Money isn't an issue with him, he owns a house down the road.... lets an old hillbilly without a pot to piss in and his lazy son and his live in live there 100% rent free.

The equipment is all his, HUGE tracked feller bunchers, excavators, dozers, skidders the works.

Last I saw him was a couple weeks ago and he said he and his son had covid..... hope they're OK!

Biggfoot44 · Nov 22, 2020

If the tooth fairy gave me that 150ac , and my goal was wildlife habitat at least equal to turning enough $ from a hay operation to cover my beer and primers budget in retirement , I could have tweaked a little more better-er .

IF every surrounding property was subdivided next month , and that 150ac would have to be self contained ecosystem, the lack of either mature-ish trees and thick enough brush for cover would suck . So long as near by properties stay similar- ish , the locality as a whole at least breaks even .

Silverlax · Nov 22, 2020

The ranch I used to work on had hundreds of acres in the mountains. They logged it 16 years or so ago. New growth is well beyond plentiful now and probably 10 years ago a pine beetle came in and killed any older trees left and surrounding the area (but left the young ones). Now there are millions of dead trees surrounding that area and God forbid when the lightning or some idiot camper in the forest service land catches the place on fire, its all going up - land, livestock, homes, livelihoods. Logging and replanting is a sustainable way to harvest a natural resource before it gets destroyed by something else. If you want to see scars, them damn windmills they are building along mountainsides are scaring the land pretty bad.

outrider58 · Nov 22, 2020

JamesDong said:
Simple, he didn't leave as much as a stick. Sold off MANY semi's of timber, that's OK trees are a crop. IMO he should have either thinned the forest or left patches of trees.... which he didn't. His lumbermen said that the forest was long overdue to be cut but hey what do I know?

I doubt any invasive garbage will find its way there other than via birdshit.

That is a major contributor after wind.
If he's clearing for pasture or crops, that's how you do it. If he's timbering, normally, the timber company only takes out certain species and leaves the rest for seeding/regrowth.

John from MD · Nov 22, 2020

budman93 said:
Bottom line is its his land and he can do whatever with it. The previous owners wishes are irrelevant.

That all depends where you live and what the watershed laws are. Do that in AA County and you will be arrested and will be paying plenty of fines.

Huckleberry · Nov 22, 2020

The are worse clear cuts like those for a strip mine.

Had friends clear cut including stumps to about 50 acres but they sowed grasses, food plants and wildflowers because they wanted a meadow for the kids, grandkids, livestock and wildlife to enjoy and play.

Their neighbors bitched and complained about the logging but didn't mind being invited to pinics, campouts and flower picking.

llkoolkeg · Nov 22, 2020

Bboarder · Nov 22, 2020

Given a few years and that'll be awesome pasture land. Hawks will have field mice to eat.

If I had that land I would clear large sections and leave large swaths wooded. Fire brakes, grazing land and then bedding zones and woods for animals.

GutPile · Nov 22, 2020

That will be some killer edge/hunting in a few years.

MunkMaster · Nov 23, 2020

He said you can do as you like right? Plant some deer delicacies so that they will come right to you.

Raping of the land

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