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Old July 13th, 2017, 11:30 PM #61
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Could I buy it today if I promise to pay you tomorrow?
"Wimpy" is that you???
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Old July 14th, 2017, 12:26 AM #62
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It is called constructive intent. If I had a 10.5" AR barrel and no lower that could legally take it, the ATF could charge me with constructive intent to build an unregistered SBR.

Having the parts to build something that would be illegal, even if you haven't yet, is illegal.

Since all I have are post ban AR-15 lowers, if I was in possession of a 16"+ barrel that wasn't of a heavy profile, MD could potentially charge me with constructive intent as I don't have anything that could legally take it (and things that could illegally take it).

So buying a magazine for a weapon configuration you don't own, but can be used in a weapon configuration you do own and happens to then have a capacity of more than 10 rounds, MD states attorney is probably going to argue you bought a 30 round magazine, which is illegal to do in Maryland.

If you have a Beowulf, buy Beowulf mags if they are labeled as such as you can find someone who will seek or ship them to you. Otherwise take a trip across the boarder and purchase them and bring them back. Stay within the law.
Great explanation, thank you. It's kind of a moot point since I doubt any shop would sell such a thing, I was just curious.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 12:27 AM #63
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Because generally anyone with a MDS handle of "lawdog" is 99% sure to be a LEO. If people can't put 1 and 1 together then they should ask instead of assuming.
Why in the world would you assume anything based on someone's screen name ?

By that reasoning should I be addressing you as Mr Mayor ?

They represented themselves as just a regular Joe bitching because someone wouldn't ship/sell them a 12 round mag. Why not just say upfront, since it completely changes the context, that the reason they were unhappy was because they were a LEO and it was a legal purchase ?


I will now assert my constitutional right to remain silent
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Old July 14th, 2017, 04:05 AM #64
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Because generally anyone with a MDS handle of "lawdog" is 99% sure to be a LEO. If people can't put 1 and 1 together then they should ask instead of assuming.
So you want us to ASSUME who someone is and that what is being discussed is illegal for 99.9% of all users.

I'd rather err on the side of caution. We don't know if this is an anti setup or someone who really doesn't know the law, or a peace officer. You want us to ASSUME a lot.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 09:12 AM #65
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There shouldn't be any exemptions...either its legal for ALL or illegal for ALL. Always talk from liberals about different classes of people being carved out...well there's an example right there.
I agree 100%. Nobody has ever been saved because of a 10 round magazine. The purpose was to put the screws to gun makers. Also, if anybody on the forum doubts my creds just send me a pm. I'm an agent of FROSH....Freedom loving Republicans who Oppose Stupid Handgun laws.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 09:34 AM #66
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I would like to point out that even in the United Kingdom, with all of its gun laws, there is NO magazine capacity restriction. Of course - they have no center fire semi-autos. But it is ludicrous it think a bolt gun is going to be a lot more dangerous with a 15 round mag (and what - 7 rounds in New York state?), versus a 10 round mag.

Also in the UK - suppressors can be bought without permission from local LE just like ammo over the counter. Go figure.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 05:06 AM #67
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Old July 15th, 2017, 06:12 AM #68
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Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
It is called constructive intent. If I had a 10.5" AR barrel and no lower that could legally take it, the ATF could charge me with constructive intent to build an unregistered SBR.

Having the parts to build something that would be illegal, even if you haven't yet, is illegal.

Since all I have are post ban AR-15 lowers, if I was in possession of a 16"+ barrel that wasn't of a heavy profile, MD could potentially charge me with constructive intent as I don't have anything that could legally take it (and things that could illegally take it).

So buying a magazine for a weapon configuration you don't own, but can be used in a weapon configuration you do own and happens to then have a capacity of more than 10 rounds, MD states attorney is probably going to argue you bought a 30 round magazine, which is illegal to do in Maryland.

If you have a Beowulf, buy Beowulf mags if they are labeled as such as you can find someone who will seek or ship them to you. Otherwise take a trip across the boarder and purchase them and bring them back. Stay within the law.
Oh FFS, no it isn't. They can nail you with constructive intent, because they BELIEVE you are attempting to break the law, but no actual violation has occurred. It is the prosecutor that bears the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty of committing a crime. You do not have to prove your innocence, they have to prove you broke the law. Mere possession is not illegal. People choose to err on the side of caution when buying/building a pistol upper and that is understandable. But if you have a pistol buffer tube or some other part of the lower, you would not fall under constructive intent, because you are waiting on the rest of the parts to come in. Legally you can have a complete pistol upper in your safe, that has never been fired, and waiting on a lower to come in or other parts. That is not illegal to do, because you have never mated it to a lower with a stock on it.

Now the mag issue you stated is BS also. You can buy whatever mag you wish, even if you do not own a firearm for it yet. The illegal part is when you modify the magazine from it's original form to manufacture a hi-cap mag within the confines of MD. But if you take the mag out of state and alter it, then bring it back, it is legal.

Before you spout restrictive this and that, stop and think about what the law actually says. If it is not listed in the law, it is legal. If it is listed in the law as illegal, then it is illegal. Full stop, end of story.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 06:37 AM #69
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Originally Posted by DaemonAssassin View Post
Oh FFS, no it isn't. They can nail you with constructive intent, because they BELIEVE you are attempting to break the law, but no actual violation has occurred. It is the prosecutor that bears the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty of committing a crime. You do not have to prove your innocence, they have to prove you broke the law. Mere possession is not illegal. People choose to err on the side of caution when buying/building a pistol upper and that is understandable. But if you have a pistol buffer tube or some other part of the lower, you would not fall under constructive intent, because you are waiting on the rest of the parts to come in. Legally you can have a complete pistol upper in your safe, that has never been fired, and waiting on a lower to come in or other parts. That is not illegal to do, because you have never mated it to a lower with a stock on it.



Now the mag issue you stated is BS also. You can buy whatever mag you wish, even if you do not own a firearm for it yet. The illegal part is when you modify the magazine from it's original form to manufacture a hi-cap mag within the confines of MD. But if you take the mag out of state and alter it, then bring it back, it is legal.



Before you spout restrictive this and that, stop and think about what the law actually says. If it is not listed in the law, it is legal. If it is listed in the law as illegal, then it is illegal. Full stop, end of story.





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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:40 AM #70
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I don't give legal advice here, generally. But there is some confusion evident here. You have to look to the actual requirements imposed by the statutory language and look for the men's rea and the actual reus required by the statute. See State v. Evans, 278 Md. 197, 206, 362 A.2d 629, 634 (1976). “[G]enerally, there are two components to every crime, the actus reus or guilty act and the mens rea or the guilty mind or mental state accompanying a forbidden act.” Garnett v. State, 332 Md. 571, 577–78, 632 A.2d 797, 800 (1993) (citations omitted). Having a guilty mind alone is generally not a crime if you have not ALSO done the actual actus reus prohibited by the statutory text.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:50 AM #71
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IANAL, IMHO. Owning the 10 round mag is fine. I would expect that if you took that 10 round mag specified by the op and loaded it with 30 rnds of 223, that it could be considered manufacturing a 30 round mag, and be illegal.

If, however, you took it out of state and declared it was a 30 round mag, you might be ok.

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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:54 AM #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esqappellate View Post
I don't give legal advice here, generally. But there is some confusion evident here. You have to look to the actual requirements imposed by the statutory language and look for the men's rea and the actual reus required by the statute. See State v. Evans, 278 Md. 197, 206, 362 A.2d 629, 634 (1976). [G]enerally, there are two components to every crime, the actus reus or guilty act and the mens rea or the guilty mind or mental state accompanying a forbidden act. Garnett v. State, 332 Md. 571, 57778, 632 A.2d 797, 800 (1993) (citations omitted). Having a guilty mind alone is generally not a crime if you have not ALSO done the actual reus prohibited by the statutory text.

That it was becoming some sort of Minority Report.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 08:17 AM #73
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The point I was trying to get at was as questioned by the OP, if you didn't happen to have a .50 Beowulf, since the magazines are interchangeable and you had a .223 AR-15 and a states attorney was feeling ornery they could charge you. Does it mean they'd secure a guilty verdict? Depends on your peers. My guess is no. Would a judge throw the case out on its ear before it ever even saw trial? Probably not.

I highly doubt anyone would come after you at all. It probably is a non-zero risk though, even if extremely low. I certainly wouldn't want to ever use a Beowulf .50 10 round mag in a .223/.300AAC in Maryland, even if you acquired the mag out of state. Stupid laws and people with agendas enforcing them.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 03:35 PM #74
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Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
The point I was trying to get at was as questioned by the OP, if you didn't happen to have a .50 Beowulf, since the magazines are interchangeable and you had a .223 AR-15 and a states attorney was feeling ornery they could charge you. Does it mean they'd secure a guilty verdict? Depends on your peers. My guess is no. Would a judge throw the case out on its ear before it ever even saw trial? Probably not.

I highly doubt anyone would come after you at all. It probably is a non-zero risk though, even if extremely low. I certainly wouldn't want to ever use a Beowulf .50 10 round mag in a .223/.300AAC in Maryland, even if you acquired the mag out of state. Stupid laws and people with agendas enforcing them.
The mags are not interchangeable. You do understand that the 50 Beowulf case is just over 1/2" in diameter, right? The follower is different, as is the feed lip geometry. In order to convert a 50 Beowulf mag to a 30 round 556 mag, you would destroy the mag. I don't know how many times you can be proven wrong, and you still keep spouting off with it.

Look, sit back and chill. Your assumptions and leaps are what is screwing you up. BGOS happens to all of us, but just because somebody doesn't do something that is legal, doesn't mean somebody else doing that act is illegal.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 03:50 PM #75
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The mags are not interchangeable. You do understand that the 50 Beowulf case is just over 1/2" in diameter, right? The follower is different, as is the feed lip geometry. In order to convert a 50 Beowulf mag to a 30 round 556 mag, you would destroy the mag. I don't know how many times you can be proven wrong, and you still keep spouting off with it.

Look, sit back and chill. Your assumptions and leaps are what is screwing you up. BGOS happens to all of us, but just because somebody doesn't do something that is legal, doesn't mean somebody else doing that act is illegal.
Sorry but you're wrong. I can take (and have many times) a 5.56 mag and loaded it with 50 Beowulf ammo and shoot all day long. As well as use the one and only 50 Beowulf mag to feed a 5.56 AR. They work perfectly fine in each platform. The follower can be changed to a slightly different shape and then they are called 50 Beowulf mags. But in reality, the 50 Beowulf can use any 5.56 styled mags as it was made from the factory.

The OP is perfectly right in asking about this subject. There has been talk about this matter ever since the 50 Beowulf has come out. It never did bother me because I had my mags long before the stupid mag laws came into play.

If you take a 10 round 50 Beowulf mag and set it beside a 30 round 5.56 mag, the average AR owner will never see the difference. You would need tools to measure the slight difference. And that difference is only so Bill Alexander can put his name on it and sell it for 2 times more.

You owe the OP an apology.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 05:08 PM #76
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IANAL, IMHO. Owning the 10 round mag is fine. I would expect that if you took that 10 round mag specified by the op and loaded it with 30 rnds of 223, that it could be considered manufacturing a 30 round mag, and be illegal.

If, however, you took it out of state and declared it was a 30 round mag, you might be ok.

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To whom would one make this declaration?
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Old July 17th, 2017, 06:06 PM #77
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... and a states attorney was feeling ornery they could charge you. ...
Charge you with what?
Possession of a 30 round magazine?
You know possession is perfectly legal.

There is no way anyone is going to try to make a case against the transfer after the fact, even if the transfer was illegal.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 06:07 PM #78
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This is a very silly thread.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 06:45 PM #79
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This is a very silly thread.
Only 3% silly.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 09:21 PM #80
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Only 3% silly.
It will probably go on for 2 weeks.

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