Age limit on manufacturing / possessing a handgun?

trappingturtles · Nov 20, 2019

rbird7282 said:
The age question aside, if I were to buy an AR15 lower and build it into a pistol, it does NOT need to be registered with the state. Understand that the state has already “registered” the lower. If I do the same with an 80% lower, it still does not have to be registered.

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Ok this is helpful. So if I finished an 80%, I wouldn’t need to register? Since I can have a pistol for self defense under Maryland law, theoretically I could manufacture one for personal use? If age was out of the window, I wouldn’t need to register it if I’m allowed to own a handgun. I’m assuming the same rule would apply if I was under 21. I may need to ask people who studied law.

Mightydog · Nov 20, 2019

In one post you say “yea, I’ll wait until I’m 21”, in another it’s “what if, what if”. Or like the “self defense” quote. No member is going to advise on how to circumvent Marylinistan law. Not with the fight we have been fighting. I just say do what you feel comfortable with knowing what possible consequences could be.

trappingturtles · Nov 20, 2019

Mightydog said:
In one post you say “yea, I’ll wait until I’m 21”, in another it’s “what if, what if”. Or like the “self defense” quote. No member is going to advise on how to circumvent Marylinistan law. Not with the fight we have been fighting. I just say do what you feel comfortable with knowing what possible consequences could be.

Yeah, I feel like I have a gray area in which I could possible work in, but shouldn’t. I’m just now getting into guns, and now I realize why pro 2a people are leaving. Not even Virginia is safe anymore.

Magnumite · Nov 21, 2019

The seven day wait to pick up a stripped receiver should be a clue. Until the receiver is a rifle it is technically a registered firearm...i.e. 21 minimum age requirement. I wouldn't touch it. Just buy a cash and carry Maryland legal HBAR carbine and have fun with it until then.

bkuether · Nov 21, 2019

Magnumite said:
The seven day wait to pick up a stripped receiver should be a clue. Until the receiver is a rifle it is technically a registered firearm...i.e. 21 minimum age requirement. I wouldn't touch it. Just buy a cash and carry Maryland legal HBAR carbine and have fun with it until then.

Best advice ^^^^^^ It's not that long of a wait......

chino101 · Nov 21, 2019

trappingturtles said:
Yeah, I feel like I have a gray area..., but shouldn’t.

Good idea, you don't want to be the legal test case for this gray area. If it goes to a court battle and you win, you will have a very expensive lower. And if you loose, you could be bared from owning any firearms for life.

trappingturtles · Nov 21, 2019

Magnumite said:
The seven day wait to pick up a stripped receiver should be a clue. Until the receiver is a rifle it is technically a registered firearm...i.e. 21 minimum age requirement. I wouldn't touch it. Just buy a cash and carry Maryland legal HBAR carbine and have fun with it until then.

Yeah I have fun with my HBAR rifles, but the ar pistols are just so appealing to me. I don’t know the age requirement to build a 80% receiver, but if it is 21, I’ll have to wait. Rather not risk getting my 2nd amendment right taken away.

trappingturtles · Nov 21, 2019

chino101 said:
Good idea, you don't want to be the legal test case for this gray area. If it goes to a court battle and you win, you will have a very expensive lower. And if you loose, you could be bared from owning any firearms for life.

While I could possibly be in the law, I enjoy being able to POSSESS firearms in general. There’s a higher chance of losing this battle versus winning. If I was made an example, I already know the state is going to try to persecute me to the fullest. I’m good just waiting until 21. You give the best responses in this thread.

trappingturtles · Nov 21, 2019

chino101 said:
Good idea, you don't want to be the legal test case for this gray area. If it goes to a court battle and you win, you will have a very expensive lower. And if you loose, you could be bared from owning any firearms for life.

The only upside is that possession of an 80% is legal, and I’m pretty sure the atf states that if you can possess it, you can make it. Since it’s a pistol issue, I don’t feel confident in my interpretation of the law, but I’m interested in getting legal advice if I did choose to pursue this route. Last thing I want is a jail sentence. I don’t possess a pistol so I don’t know the process of legally being able to make one, but If someone over 21 makes an pistol from a lower, would they still need to register? I know dealers have to, but what if you are the manufacture? If they don’t have to register their homemade pistol in Maryland, theoretically I could make one under the exemption. But this is a long shot I’m not willing to take. Just looking for legal advice and answers.

Biggfoot44 · Nov 22, 2019

Legal Advice = Attorney

jvegas · Nov 22, 2019

MD law states you must be 21 to possess a handgun. I arrest people quite often for violating this in the city. It’s a felony, btw.

chino101 · Nov 22, 2019

trappingturtles said:
The only upside is that possession of an 80% is legal, and I’m pretty sure the atf states that if you can possess it, you can make it. Since it’s a pistol issue, I don’t feel confident in my interpretation of the law, but I’m interested in getting legal advice if I did choose to pursue this route. Last thing I want is a jail sentence. I don’t possess a pistol so I don’t know the process of legally being able to make one, but If someone over 21 makes an pistol from a lower, would they still need to register? I know dealers have to, but what if you are the manufacture? If they don’t have to register their homemade pistol in Maryland, theoretically I could make one under the exemption. But this is a long shot I’m not willing to take. Just looking for legal advice and answers.

I saw this video made by a lawyer, that may answer your question. Not sure if he is licensed in MD. https://youtu.be/pXRj6KydI6o

trappingturtles · Nov 22, 2019

jvegas said:
MD law states you must be 21 to possess a handgun. I arrest people quite often for violating this in the city. It’s a felony, btw.

I’m assuming you are a cop, so this is good that you are responding to me. Did you see the exemption part where it says you can possess one for self defense in your own residence if you are under 21? That’s the part I’m speaking about. Not sure if it actually holds weight or not so if you could tell me that would be great for practicality.

Sirex · Nov 22, 2019

I know not ideal, but would an antique revolver be prohibited for someone under 21, since it's not a "firearm"? There are several little pre-1898 cartridge handguns that require no FFL, and shoot .32S&W or .38S&W. I would think they would be in the realm of black powder revolvers, not prohibited bit MD law is often ambiguous.

chino101 · Nov 22, 2019

trappingturtles said:
TL;DR, If I technically claim possession of a handgun as self defense, could I possess the lower with the buffer tube? I wanted to Know all the legality issues before starting to invest into the project. Last thing I want to do is break the law. All responses are accepted.

If I'm comprehending § 5-133(d)(2)(vi) correctly:

"(vi) the possession of a firearm for self-defense or the defense of others against a trespasser into the residence of the person in possession or into a residence in which the person in possession is an invited guest."

I think this paragraph of the law is intended to absolve an underage possessor of a criminal act during the act of self-defense or the defense of others against a trespasser in the home. For example a child using a parents' or relative's gun to defend themselves, or family during a home invasion. In other words possession in the moment of repelling a trespasser is fine. And as far as I know children haven't been charged of a crime for doing just this.

I can't imagine that his section of the law would covers preemptive, or just in-case possession of a regulated firearm for reasons of self-defense where the primary owner is under 21.

lazarus · Nov 22, 2019

Magnumite said:
The seven day wait to pick up a stripped receiver should be a clue. Until the receiver is a rifle it is technically a registered firearm...i.e. 21 minimum age requirement. I wouldn't touch it. Just buy a cash and carry Maryland legal HBAR carbine and have fun with it until then.

This.

My point was you do NOT need to register it. However a DA/SA can make a good argument in court that once you’ve manufactured it for the period of time it exists until you bolt a buffer tube, stock and 16+” barreled receiver on it it is a regulated firearm and thus illegal for you to possess.

The self defense exception thing is more akin to one of my kids taking one of my handguns when I am not home and shooting an intruder.

trappingturtles · Nov 22, 2019

chino101 said:
If I'm comprehending § 5-133(d)(2)(vi) correctly:

"(vi) the possession of a firearm for self-defense or the defense of others against a trespasser into the residence of the person in possession or into a residence in which the person in possession is an invited guest."

I think this paragraph of the law is intended to absolve an underage possessor of a criminal act during the act of self-defense or the defense of others against a trespasser in the home. For example a child using a parents' or relative's gun to defend themselves, or family during a home invasion. In other words possession in the moment of repelling a trespasser is fine. And as far as I know children haven't been charged of a crime for doing just this.

I can't imagine that his section of the law would covers preemptive, or just in-case possession of a regulated firearm for reasons of self-defense where the primary owner is under 21.

That’s what I was thinking too, but i also feel like that in the case, the law SHOULD be worded “the possession of a firearm in or during self defense” since for would be intended on why you have the firearm, for self defense, not used in self defense. I’m not an English professor or a gun expert, but it seems the law is all about interpretation imo. Plus above this in the law, anyone under 21 has to have parent supervision with handling the gun, so if the parents aren’t home, then the kid would still be in trouble with the law. It’s not saying the USE of a firearm it’s saying possession for self defense, but possession is illegal if the parents aren’t home. That’s why this part of the law is worded weird as hell. I’m pretty sure there was a report about a kid getting civil charged brought onto him since he wasn’t allowed to use an object that he used to defend himself. The exceptions prior are for people who work and are required to have a firearm, so just the possession of one during work is legal, that covers having it on them at work, not just the altercation. I’d assume the same for the household of said under 21 person since it’s allowed for self defense, possession in the house is legal.

Mightydog · Nov 22, 2019

How many times do we have to answer the same questions? You’re gonna still get the same answers. Call or visit your local MSP barracks and ask them. And BTW there is a huge difference between the terms “possession” and “ownership”. Maybe that’s what you’re hung up on.

chino101 · Nov 22, 2019

I agree, the vagueness of the law is confusing. Notice that throughout § 5-133, it only mentions possession but not ownership of regulated firearms. This brings to mind the case against Alwin Chen, whom was charged with possession of a regulated firearm, in addition to two more crimes. That firearm looks like a home built Poly80 Glock 19. He eventually plead guilty to 'wear, carry and transport' of a handgun, but plead and found not guilty to possession. If possession was the only charge would he have been so lucky?

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/uni...star-pupil-alwin-chen-says-he-brought-handgun

jvegas · Nov 22, 2019

trappingturtles said:
I’m assuming you are a cop, so this is good that you are responding to me. Did you see the exemption part where it says you can possess one for self defense in your own residence if you are under 21? That’s the part I’m speaking about. Not sure if it actually holds weight or not so if you could tell me that would be great for practicality.

12 years of being a gun/drug cop. Yeah and what the exemption is stating is that if you have to use a lawfully owned handgun to protect life inside your home (your dad’s gun) you won’t go to jail.

Age limit on manufacturing / possessing a handgun?

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