Shooting Range Safety

Hey guys. I was at the range (On Target) a couple of times this weekend and I couldn't help but take note of some pretty questionable range safety violations that made me pretty uncomfortable.

The basic rule at On Target is that you are supposed to keep all guns in the shooting lane booth area, and to have them pointed down range at all times. That includes shooting, loading, reloading, unloading, clearing, etc. Twice in less than five minutes I saw two people in gross violation of that with both people seemingly unaware of where the business end of their gun was pointing.

In the first one the person was standing behind another shooter, messing around with a single action and when I looked down, I could see that it still had rounds in the cylinder (not sure if they were fired or not) and the barrel was pointed right at the back of the other person in the lane who was shooting with a different firearm. (I could see this because I was standing behind the person in my lane who was taking their turn at the target, and I glanced over when this person started jacking around with the gun in their hand.)

The second instance was someone who was fiddling with their semi-auto, but they were clear back near the wall, and again, there they are racking on the slide, seemingly with no thought as to where their barrel was pointed - you know, kind of waving it all over the place. I actually said something to that person. If you are reading this and you think that it might have been you, please do me the favor and think about what you are doing the next time you are at the range before you start doing something unsafe.

I don't want to sound like a whiner, but I'd rather sound like a whiner than for me or one of my loved ones to wind up seriously injured or even dead. It isn't like we aren't briefed about safety before we go onto the firing line.

Folks, I know that when dealing with guns that using them in a safe manner is supposed to be a forgone conclusion, but from what I witnessed this weekend, apparently it isn't. The purpose of this thread is to hopefully bring awareness to those who might not be doing things as safely as they should be, and you know who you are. If you are new to guns and shooting, or you don't really give the safety part of it too much thought, I would encourage you to sign up and take a Hunter's Safety course. Please. Or at the very least, adhere to the safety policies set forth by the ranges we attend. THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING WHEN YOU HAVE A GUN IN YOUR HAND!

Ok - rant over.

Range safety is everyone's responsibility. The reason is twofold.

First, it helps keep you safe, and everyone around you safe.

Second, it only takes one incident to give the politicians the ammunition it needs to enact stricter laws in the name of "safety".

I would hope that range facilities have a range officer that would keep these kinds of incidents to a minimum and educate the folk doing the violations, but I guess they are using the honor system.

strange that they've gotten lax there, they used to be really fussy about it. I had to oil my pistol while in the range and the guy literally made me oil it at the firing station. wouldn't let me take it to the table by the window to do it. which is really picky, but safer if one guy is having to watch the whole line.
+1 for better safe than shot.

I got swept by a muzzle at the range Sunday (or close). The guy was working with the slide. A bit scary. People do sometimes forget that these are deadly weapons, even when doing target practice.

Splitter

I used to shoot at Maryland Small Arms on a regular basis and after a scary incident with a guy pointing a loaded .22 Raven that had just misfired at my belly when he he was asking me if I could help him get it to work, I bought a bullet proof vest for wearing there.
I never wore it though, but that incident will always be in my mind. I didn't have another incident like it again at MDSA, but they have some idiots shooting there on occasion. (not real idiots, but people that are new to guns and never bothered to learn gun safety)

trickg said:

. . . . I don't want to sound like a whiner, but I'd rather sound like a whiner than for me or one of my loved ones to wind up seriously injured or even dead. . . .

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As an NRA RSO for 15 years, and NRA Chief RSO (trainer) since '99, I can tell you that this IS the big issue for everyone who might point out a safety violation.

No one wants to be a whiner, a pain in the ass or a safety nazi. Very often, stopping the proceedings and insisting that basic safety rules be followed is uncomfortable. We cannot let this stop us from doing whatever we can to prevent accidents.

As posted above, firearm safety is everyone's responsibility, and there are basic safety rules that MUST be followed for everyone's well being.

The very FIRST rule of firearm safety in any format is to "Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction". Even if only this one rule is followed, personal injury is not possible.

It IS uncomfortable, but ask yourself "How would it be if you ignored the situation and the firearm discharged?". How would the discomfort of confronting another adult over their unintentional carelessness compare to the discomfort of seeing someone shot and/or killed, knowing that you could have and should have stopped it.

As much time as I spend on military ranges and at tactical matches, I spend a lot of time with "Type A" personalities, both civilians, military and police. It very often starts a "discussion" when one criticizes another's gun handling habits, especially if they are professionals ("I'm the only one in this room qualified to handle this Glock . . . "). Most won't even admit they were wrong, let alone apologize and comply without some comment on how whatever they did was somehow acceptable. You would not believe how many times I have insisted on turning the muzzle downrange and/or away from other personnel, only to be told "Oh, it's not loaded", "Oh, the action is open", "Oh, I was just _____ (insert whatever)", is if this excuse somehow forgives the transgression. It very simply does not and one must stand their ground in insisting that the firearm be kept in a safe direction.

I always ask how they would feel if I unloaded my rifle, opened my bolt, shouldered it and sighted at their face. This overt act of aggression, of course, is somehow "different" from what they did, but I have yet to have someone tell me exactly *how* it is any different. My rifle would be unloaded, my bolt would be open, my finger would be off the trigger. . . A firearm pointed at you or anyone else, intentionally or not, is unacceptable and must be stopped as soon as it is started.

In you situation, it is usually easiest to lean over and gently point out that the careless person is creating a dangerous situation by violating a safety rule. If one tries to minimize the embarrassment of being "corrected", smooth compliance is usually forthcoming. Expect some "face saving" excuse, but also expect immediate compliance. If there is not immediate compliance, call for range personnel right now, and explain the situation to them. It is their direct responsibility to correct any dangerous situation immediately.

If range personnel act unconcerned (they most will be concerned), you are obviously in the wrong place and it's time to go. If you paid for the range time, ask for a refund. A letter should be sent to management ASAP, specifically outlining the situation, naming names and documenting times, firing positions, etc. and I'd bet you get a very serious reaction. Safety is one of the biggest concerns of range operators, if not THE biggest, and if a problem is pointed out that is not corrected, their legal liability is enhanced tremendously. I guarantee they will want to know if any of their people would allow a dangerous condition to go unchecked.

your going to always have newbies that have not had that much nor enough experience in handling firearms and do really unsafe/careless mistakes. Don't be afraid to point it out to them and if the don't want to listem let the staff know and if nothing is done immediatly leave. I won't risk my saftey or anyone else because I'm afraid or embarressed of being named a whinner.

Thanks for the responses - Splitter, I wonder if you and I aren't talking about the same person at the same time.

I think that much of it can be attributed to simple inexperience, however, as Ed says, that doesn't really excuse it. In my case, I glared at the person and said "Jesus Christ!" (it was the first thing that popped out.) I think they got the idea, because they took the gun back to their lane to fiddle with it.

If I said that I had never committed a firearms safety transgression, that would be a lie, but in my case, I've been handling guns and shooting since I was big enough to hold a gun, and safety was drilled into me by my father who was a Hunter's Safety and shooting instructor. He'd come down on me with both feet when it happened so by the time I was an adult, needless to say, I wasn't screwing it up any more.

Thanks for keeping the thread going. Like I said, it was enough to make me uncomfortable and since I know a lot of the folks here on the board go to On Target, I figured it would be a good way to increase awareness for the next times they are at the range.

Nice thread, I had an incident and I would like to get everyones opinion to make sure I wasn't thinking it to be worse than it was.

To start with I will give a summarized background on me, this may be helpful to explain my discomfort with this situation. I am NRA certified as an instructor in 3 disciplines, waiting on my RSO certification from NRA right now. Also certified as an IDPA safety Officer. Joined the Marine Corps at 17, spent 7 years with them and was hunting since about 14. I have been an avid shooter for many years and in my mid 40's currently. Okay, enough background now for the situation.

I had placed my rifle in a shooting position approximately 3-4 spaces left of a gentleman who was shooting prone on a mat with what looked like a very large caliber rifle. The range went cold and we headed down to place targets, as we are walking I am noticing that this person is walking to the other side of the range with his target. He is in the lane all the way to the right and is placing his target at the backer all the way to the left. I ask him as he is setting up his target if he is shooting at that from where his rifle is located, he replies yes. Thinking that he may not understand what I just asked him I rephrased it for him. I asked if he intended to shoot his rifle across the lanes of fire and he again replied yes. He stated he only had about 5 rounds for that rifle with him so it would be no big deal. There were about 5-6 other folks shooting rifle to my left as well. This totally dumbfounded me and was about as big a safety hazard as I have seen at a range in quite some time, at least in my opinion. I was a guest at this range and did not want to seem like an ass so I proceeded to go to the opposite end of the range and stand back from the firing line till he was finished. Was I being overly cautious or was my thinking off on this?

I go and complain if I see blatant unsafe things going on
I could care less what people think

3rdRcn, definitely bad practice and the RO should have corrected this. Exactly how much of a safety hazard depends on several factors:

1) Distance vs range width:

For example, if the range is 50 yards wide, and you're shooting at 50 yards, this is a very real hazard, both to fellow shooters and to people adjacent to the impact area, as he would be shooting at a 45o angle to the firing line. This reduces the margin of error for gun handling by 45o, in addition to putting any errant bullets outside the average designated impact area . . .

If the range is 20 yards wide and you're shooting 100 yards, much less a hazard, since the angle to other shooters is less dangerous and the discharge angle likely falls within normal dispersion allowances and lands within the impact area.

2) Available impact area:

Even if the lateral angle does not seem excessive when considered with respect to distance vs width, there may still be a hazard specific to the range's allotted impact area (SDZ/Surface Danger Zone). Many ranges (especially those with a relatively small amount of their own (posted) property to serve as impact areas, or, ranges with multiple firing lines) require strict adherence to shooting lane discipline in order to ensure that no bullets leave the designated SDZ for that particular range.

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Unless obviously dangerous to the adjacent shooters, the actual safety risk would have to be evaluated by the RO, who will know the specific range's SOP and SDZ. IMHO, the RO should have been observant enough to notice the guy shooting at an angle ("doing his job") and not allowed him to cross fire at all. The shooter could have been moved during live fire and placed to the far left position, or the shooter kept in cease fire mode until the next break in which the target could be positioned correctly. Which would have been the best option would depend on the safety aspects of moving behind a hot line and/or distracting yourself fooling with moving the guy when you should be watching the line.

BTW, rifle fire is particularly hazardous, due to the great distances a bullet can travel, and the often crazy flight path a bullet can take if it does not make direct impact on an effective berm. Nowhere is this more apparent than a night fire exercise, in which tracers are fired. I think any new RO should attend a night fire session and see just how many ricocheted bullets seem to go straight up and/or at near 90o to the firing line. Very graphic demonstration.

Thanks for the reply Ed, The distance was approx 100 yds and the range was about 30 or so yards wide. I looked at the angle and he was not endangering anyone from that aspect. You did however hit the nail on the head in regards to night fire and bullets kinda defying logic in their flight path. If, and I realize it is a very very low probability, his round was to collide with another one traveling at over 2800 fps, you could get a round coming back at you. Being this would have occurred in all likelihood at around 50 or so yards out, this was my major concern. Justifiable concern?

Most of the ranges, looking at various range rules online, state the shooter must shoot at a target in their lane. No cross shooting. If you are shooting in lane five, your target is in lane five.

You stated that you were a guest, where was the club member that you were shooting with? I would have asked that person. I also would have checked with the RO to see if it was OK.

3rdRcn,

Shooting across lanes is not acceptable in my book, I've had cases where guys shooting across lanes shoot other peoples targets. I would have told the range officer of the situation and let him handle it. The problem with shooting at an angle is that the bullet is entering the berm or backstop at an angle, which may cause a richochet, or go through the berm. Most ranges are designed for perpendicular impacts so the berm is built parallel to the shooting line, whether or not the ends are blocked/built up to prevent angled shots from making it out of the berm, that is up to the range.

E.Shell pretty much summed it up.

The only thing I can fathom about this guy, is that he wanted some extra length for his shots, maybe he wanted to shoot at 100 meters? Still, the guy should have been safer. My .02.

mikec said:

Most of the ranges, looking at various range rules online, state the shooter must shoot at a target in their lane. No cross shooting. If you are shooting in lane five, your target is in lane five.

You stated that you were a guest, where was the club member that you were shooting with? I would have asked that person. I also would have checked with the RO to see if it was OK.

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A few of the other folks there also noticed what he was doing and said nothing, so I figured I was being a little anal. This was a private range and most of them including mine do not have a posted RSO, everyone assumes responsibility as an RSO when shooting.

I dunno, Trick, mine happened at Hap Baker Sunday evening.

First, let me say that the three young people shooting next to me were really respectful and rather safety concious overall. Since I am an old buzzard, I would say these were "good kids". Two guys (three at times) were teaching a young lady to shoot. Let's just say this yonug lady attracted attention of the young men (not old guys like me, we are like the proverbial dog chasing the car so we don't even look).

Anyway, the guy that really seemed to know what he was doing was having trouble with his slide. I peeked over and the muzzle was pointed about a yard out in front and across from me. I honestly wouldn't say he absolutely swept me, but it was too close for my comfort. My quick peek was enough as I do not know what he was doing for the 10 seconds before I looked..

I think it was a momentary slip up on his part. Instead of saying anything or glowering, I just safteid my revolver, laid it down, and stepped back from the line. I think he noticed. Now they probably thought I was checking out their young lady friend but I assure you, 30 years old is the absolute lower limit for me lol. If one of the parties is reading this board, the real reason I stepped back was just that I was uncomforatable at times with what was going on next to me. Not terrified mind you and I only saw one "violation" that I think was a momenttary slip up from someone who actually knew what they doing. I'm not downing you, I promise.

BTW, if you have to work on your handgun for some reason, it's really better to turn your body so that the muzzle stays pointing downrange. I myself had some trouble changing cylinders on my little revolver yesterday and even took myself to the other end of the line so as not to make the group next to me feel uncomfortable (we were the onloy ones there at the time).

It wasn't all a loss, I might have gotten us a new member (Pete with the MKIII and scope) and got to expend a bunch of ammo.... hell, I don't think I have ever been that accurate before with a handgun! lol

Splitter

3rdRcn said:

Thanks for the reply Ed, The distance was approx 100 yds and the range was about 30 or so yards wide. I looked at the angle and he was not endangering anyone from that aspect. You did however hit the nail on the head in regards to night fire and bullets kinda defying logic in their flight path. If, and I realize it is a very very low probability, his round was to collide with another one traveling at over 2800 fps, you could get a round coming back at you. Being this would have occurred in all likelihood at around 50 or so yards out, this was my major concern. Justifiable concern?

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I think that if your rounds collided, the resultant energy would still be directed downrange. The scariest part of this, for me, is in regard to knowing your backstop and what's beyond it. Ranges are designed for people to shoot down their lane, and hit a berm or some other backstop square-on. When you start firing out of lane, weird angles start getting involved and those ricochets have a much higher probability of landing in places they shouldn't be landing.

Putting it another way, firing ranges are designed a certain way. Using them in ways they aren't designed for is, to me, just as dangerous as using firearms in ways they aren't designed to be used.

I have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds from an M60 watching tracer rounds do their thing. Everyone should see this at night and watch what these rounds will do. Scary stuff.

VNVGUNNER said:

I have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds from an M60 watching tracer rounds do their thing. Everyone should see this at night and watch what these rounds will do. Scary stuff.

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The only time I have fired tracer rounds was in Basic Training while doing night fire exercises, and I was amazed at how many rounds, rather than going straight down range where they were supposed to go, arced clear up and over any of the targets. We're talking a 45 degree difference from where they were supposed to be going.

Again, my hope with this thread is to get enough people to read it to where they might be a little more aware of what they are doing when they are at the range with others. One second of slip-up can = a lifetime of regret in where firearms are concerned.

trickg said:

Hey guys. I was at the range (On Target) a couple of times this weekend and I couldn't help but take note of some pretty questionable range safety violations that made me pretty uncomfortable.

The basic rule at On Target is that you are supposed to keep all guns in the shooting lane booth area, and to have them pointed down range at all times. That includes shooting, loading, reloading, unloading, clearing, etc. Twice in less than five minutes I saw two people in gross violation of that with both people seemingly unaware of where the business end of their gun was pointing.

In the first one the person was standing behind another shooter, messing around with a single action and when I looked down, I could see that it still had rounds in the cylinder (not sure if they were fired or not) and the barrel was pointed right at the back of the other person in the lane who was shooting with a different firearm. (I could see this because I was standing behind the person in my lane who was taking their turn at the target, and I glanced over when this person started jacking around with the gun in their hand.)

The second instance was someone who was fiddling with their semi-auto, but they were clear back near the wall, and again, there they are racking on the slide, seemingly with no thought as to where their barrel was pointed - you know, kind of waving it all over the place. I actually said something to that person. If you are reading this and you think that it might have been you, please do me the favor and think about what you are doing the next time you are at the range before you start doing something unsafe.

I don't want to sound like a whiner, but I'd rather sound like a whiner than for me or one of my loved ones to wind up seriously injured or even dead. It isn't like we aren't briefed about safety before we go onto the firing line.

Folks, I know that when dealing with guns that using them in a safe manner is supposed to be a forgone conclusion, but from what I witnessed this weekend, apparently it isn't. The purpose of this thread is to hopefully bring awareness to those who might not be doing things as safely as they should be, and you know who you are. If you are new to guns and shooting, or you don't really give the safety part of it too much thought, I would encourage you to sign up and take a Hunter's Safety course. Please. Or at the very least, adhere to the safety policies set forth by the ranges we attend. THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING WHEN YOU HAVE A GUN IN YOUR HAND!

Ok - rant over.

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I just have a question for you ... Did you tell the staff what was going on ...

If you are at the range an see an unsafe practice you say something to that person kindly an then tell the range officer .. I have shot plenty at On target an do not feel thier safety is Lax at all but do feel every shooter if they see an safety violation or concern should say something to the the staff so they are aware of the issue so they can do something about it .

As we all have said safety is all of our concern ... so next time you are at a range an you see something going on tell the staff or range officer so we are all safe and get to go home an not the hospital .



Kali