Recommend Me A Rear Sight (M1911A1 Govt)

trickg · Dec 3, 2008

I have an old 1911A1 government model that is currently sporting a fixed rear sight. It's a Wilson tactical sight (white dots) but it doesn't do me a lot of good due to the fact that the sight is fixed, and this pistol consistently shoots low and right.

I've already gotten the well meaning suggestions that I could change:

a.) my grip
b.) my trigger finger placement
c.) my ammo

Doesn't matter - it still shoots low and right. So, I have begun shopping around for an aftermarket adjustable rear sight to go into this gun to correct the issue.

To give a little more insight about the gun itself, it's a 1941 M1911A1 government model. Before anyone says, "Stop - don't do it! It's COLLECTIBLE!!!!" :eek:

Just know that the gun has already been modified in many ways - yeah, I could put it back to original, but for me, this gun is a shooter - period - and I'm not worried about collector value on it. Besides, when it comes to having something collectible, I'm already covered in that department.

I'm totally open to suggestion, although I would like another white dot rear sight.

trickg · Dec 4, 2008

Sorry to shamelessly bump my own thread, but I'm surprised that I didn't get any takers or suggestions.

Anyone?

pauln · Dec 4, 2008

Bo-Mar although I think they are out of production, but STI makes an equivalent sight.

trickg · Dec 4, 2008

pauln said:
Bo-Mar although I think they are out of production, but STI makes an equivalent sight.

Thanks. That's +1 on the Bo-Mar based on some internet browsing I have done, and one sight referenced that Bo-Mars were out of production and recommended the STI.

I thought about getting the Kimber rear sight, but those suckers are a good $30-$40 more expensive than they should be IMO - probably because they say "Kimber" on them. (and even if they don't exclusively say "Kimber" the association is enough to inflate the price.)

My nephew just got a Kimber Gold Match II and he says he really likes the adjustible rears sight. I wonder if Kimber makes their own sights, or if they have them made by someone else?

smores · Dec 4, 2008

In terms of your grip, I'm sure you know of the "shooter's wheel of fortune." Have you used this? Also, I'm guessing your other pistols shoot more in the red than this one?

trickg · Dec 4, 2008

smores said:
In terms of your grip, I'm sure you know of the "shooter's wheel of fortune." Have you used this? Also, I'm guessing your other pistols shoot more in the red than this one?

Shooter's wheel of fortune? I'll have to look into that.

Regarding my other pistols, I'm pretty much dead on with the rest of them, although the rest of them are revolvers. They'll shoot pretty much right where I aim. I don't think it's a semi-auto vs. revolver thing either because I don't have a problems with any other semi-autos - this problem seems to be specific to this 1911 pistol. I've thought about trying my hand at IDP shoots, but unless I get a different gun, I'm not confident of the results I'll get with this 1911 unless I change the rear sight and dial it up to where it needs to be.

I should probably also add that I'm not the only person who has shot this pistol where it shoots low and right.

smores · Dec 4, 2008

trickg said:
Shooter's wheel of fortune? I'll have to look into that.

I misquoted it, it was the 'Shooter's Wheel of Misfortune'. Print a few of these out and place them behind your targets. It helped me out when I started shooting handguns. - However if you've got the right grip, trigger technique, and sight picture, then you know what to do!

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

Kchen986 · Dec 5, 2008

Trickg,

I think it's most likely your sights. When I purchased my first 1911, I went to the gun store and saw two inexpensive, preowned Charles-Dalys. One of them had a trigger job and minor smithing, but I could not for the life of me get it to shoot point-of-aim. It constantly shot low to the left.

Then I tried the other non-modified Charles Daly 1911. Shot like a dream. Shoot 5 shots in to one ragged hole accurate. So it most likely is not you.

I have Novaks on my 1911. Like em' alot, glow pretty bright, sight picture is good in both light and dark conditions, would definitely reccomend them.

If you send your gun to Novak, I believe they can install and zero for ya.

http://www.novaksights.com/

Hope I've helped!
-K

trickg · Dec 6, 2008

K - Thanks for that tip. I'm still checking some things out. I like the STI, but I can't seem to find one with just basic white dots - it's either plain, or tritium, and that's not something I want on that gun, mainly because I'm not interested in replacing the front sight, which would require milling a dovetail into the slide. The thought is that if I ever really wanted to put the gun back original, I could if I leave things as is, but not if I cut a dovetail into the slide for a new front sight.

pauln · Dec 6, 2008

The Bo-Mar style also requires the rear end of the slide to be machined. Check out Millett, they have a few available for the 1911. http://www.millettsights.com/controller.php/catalog/rear_semi

Huckleberry · Dec 6, 2008

trickg said:
To give a little more insight about the gun itself, it's a 1941 M1911A1 government model. Before anyone says, "Stop - don't do it! It's COLLECTIBLE!!!!" Just know that the gun has already been modified in many ways QUOTE]

Maybe some of the other modifications are causing the accuracy problem.

Have you shot the pistol from a ransom rest or other stationary rest to check it's accuracy?

Some things to consider before you spend the money on sites.

Bushing - Is it a parts barrel bushing or NM? Worn out, maybe?
Link - Worn or wrong size
Slide and Frame rails a little loose? Some battle rattle in the old warhorses causes a lot of accuracy issues.
Barrel - Original or good quality replacement?

trickg · Dec 6, 2008

Huck - it's not the gun - it groups tight, and if it was worn parts, theoretically, it would be all over the place. I haven't shot it from a ransom rest, but I have shot it enough to know that it's consistent, just consistently off.

I don't really know if the barrel has been replaced or not - my Dad would know, but since he died in 1997, he's not really around to ask.

I inherited this gun after my Mom finally decided after 11 years to do something with my Dad's gun collection, so I have only been shooting it since February.

It's not all original - there are some things that have been changed, but as far as I know, the internals with the exception of the trigger are original. (trigger is a skeletonized, lightweight aluminum trigger.)

At 25 feet, this gun has consistently shot about 3.5" low and about 2.5" right. If I maintain point of aim without trying to adjust, it groups well....just low and right.

Now if ANY gun of mine has an excuse to have some old battle rattle, it would be my 1956 S&W .44 Magnum that my Dad shot and abused from the time he bought it new in 1956, but that thing shoots as accurately as anything I own.

EdNoell · Dec 6, 2008

Trijicon makes a tritium night sights for the 1911. It's not adjustable, but I believe you can get different height front posts for it to take out any elevation problems.

trickg · Dec 6, 2008

EdNoell said:
Trijicon makes a tritium night sights for the 1911. It's not adjustable, but I believe you can get different height front posts for it to take out any elevation problems.

I'd rather have it black and adjustable than tritium and fixed.

BlindViper · Dec 6, 2008

Have someone else shoot the gun see if the group moves.

Huckleberry · Dec 6, 2008

Trick,
Shots do not have to be all over the place due to worn or ill fitted parts. A low quality or poorly fitted bushing can cause similiar issues with group placement, especially if the bushing is not truely round, and the deformation exerts continual and constant pressure on the barrel as the pistol moves through battery. This is the reason why match
1911A1s have N.M. parts and gunsmiths make money curing poor shooting or grouping pistols with those parts.
Now not too many revolvers suffer from battle rattle, not even the old Army issue S&W M10s with their thin barrels though some suffered from warped barrels from being stored for years and years hung by the barrel on 2 to 3" wooden dowels in arms rooms. With the low and slow issued .38 Special FMJ, you could literally see the round going down range on a "curve ball" trajectory to the target.
We had 50+ year 1911A1s still on my last unit's MTO&E until they M9s started coming in to the system. You could pick most up, give it a shake and you'd hear and feel the play between the slide and frame from wear and abuse. That was pistol's battle rattle.

Good Luck with your fun and I do mean fun because what you're going through is the price you pay for loving and shooting JMB's pride and joy.

trickg · Dec 7, 2008

BlindViper said:
Have someone else shoot the gun see if the group moves.

I thought I mentioned further up in the thread that the gun shoots low and right for all who shoot it.

trickg said:
I should probably also add that I'm not the only person who has shot this pistol where it shoots low and right.

On a good day I can (on occasion) shoot a 6 shot, 1/2" hole at point of aim with my S&W Model 27 at 25 feet, although to be fair, sometimes that group spreads to 1" - 1.5" - depends on how well I'm doing that day. The point is, I shoot well enough to know that the thing is shooting INCHES low and right.

Recommend Me A Rear Sight (M1911A1 Govt)

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