Erratic With Trigger Right Before Firing

Tungsten · Nov 4, 2017

My accuracy with a handgun is nowhere near what I think is acceptable. So I have been dry firing, working on my grip strength and just recently invested in a laserlyte. What I noticed (and never realized before) was that I hold the pistol on target very well throughout the pull of the trigger except for the last 1/10". At that point I push it to the left (I'm right handed). I always have the sensation that I'm reaching for the trigger, but it doesnt seem to affect anything until the very last bit of travel. Have any of you had this issue? This happens more with a 2 handed grip than just one-handed.

Originally I thought I had a bad flinch as my placement tends to be down and to the left. However I realized I was pulling the pistol down with my support hand. Once I shot one handed, the low part was cured. However I still have this consistent push to the left.

Any tips and tricks to fix it?

balttigger · Nov 5, 2017

Ethan83 · Nov 5, 2017

Tungsten said:
I always have the sensation that I'm reaching for the trigger

This is a primary cause for pushing shots left for right-handers. Re-work your grip so you're not 'reaching' for the trigger and can maintain your press straight back for the full travel.

Tungsten · Nov 5, 2017

Ethan83 said:
This is a primary cause for pushing shots left for right-handers. Re-work your grip so you're not 'reaching' for the trigger and can maintain your press straight back for the full travel.

Whenever I do that, I end up beating the piss out of the base of my thumb. I have average hands, but I suspect my trigger finger is short compared to many.

I always thought that I would push the gun left from the very start of the trigger pull, but it only shows up at the very end of the pull. That is the part that is weird to me.

Ethan83 · Nov 5, 2017

Tungsten said:
Whenever I do that, I end up beating the piss out of the base of my thumb. I have average hands, but I suspect my trigger finger is short compared to many.

As in, you’re rotating your hand around the grip such that the rear of the grip is against your thumb and not the webbing between it and your index finger?

Perhaps try rotating your hand ‘forward’ instead of ‘around’ - along the axis that would point your hand more downward than leftward. Look up the “thumbs forward” grip if you’re not already familiar.

Also, what pistol are you using? If it’s a chunky double stack 45 it’s possible your hands are simply too small for a good grip, but that’s probably not the case if they’re average for a male.

Tungsten · Nov 5, 2017

Ethan83 said:
As in, you’re rotating your hand around the grip such that the rear of the grip is against your thumb and not the webbing between it and your index finger?

Yes exactly. When I rotate around to feel like I can fully engage the trigger, the beavertail/rear grip is just to the right of the base knuckle on my thumb.

Perhaps try rotating your hand ‘forward’ instead of ‘around’ - along the axis that would point your hand more downward than leftward. Look up the “thumbs forward” grip if you’re not already familiar.

I typically use thumbs forward. But I'll try to work on linear grip changes as opposed to rotation. Good suggestion.

Also, what pistol are you using? If it’s a chunky double stack 45 it’s possible your hands are simply too small for a good grip, but that’s probably not the case if they’re average for a male.

It feels the same with a CZ SP-01 w/ thin grips or a Walther PPQ medium and small backstrap. Believe it or not, an old Ruger P95 feels the best, even though I shoot the PPQ much more accurately.

engineerbrian · Nov 5, 2017

Mantis X is a great training aid. I have one and if your are ever in Frederick and we can get our schedules to align, you can try mine.

They also work with air soft for indoor training

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZiJheZlUek

dist1646 · Nov 5, 2017

If you are shooting a 1911, you can replace the trigger with either a medium or GI length instead of the long trigger that most 1911's come with today.

Magnumite · Nov 5, 2017

Tungsten said:
...It feels the same with a CZ SP-01 w/ thin grips or a Walther PPQ medium and small backstrap. Believe it or not, an old Ruger P95 feels the best, even though I shoot the PPQ much more accurately.

Sounds like you are a true student of shooting a handgun. You will do well.

Don't beat yourself up over the P-95 relative to accuracy. Strong, very reliable but not overly accurate. I had one, love Ruger guns but I despise a firearm which is inaccurate. Sold it.

You'll never shoot your best with a gun that doesn't fit you well. Something to think about. I am fond of 1911's and shoot them proficiently. There are certain configurations in the grip of the 1911 pistol that allow me to shoot it better than average but not as well as I could. You rotating your hand means the length of pull is too long for your hand size, which has been established already. If, however you still have some of your hand's web behind the backstrap you will be okay.

You mentioned issues occur in the last part of the trigger stroke. You need to look at the angle of last digit of your trigger is with the trigger pulled all the way back. It should be perpendicular to the face of the trigger or the tip of the finger ever so slightly more rearward. Another thing to look at is if the long digit of the trigger finger is push the pistol sideways when the trigger breaks. That is the reason frame relief cutouts behind the trigger were included on 1911 pistols after 1924. You may have to adjust your grip to provide these 'attitudes' in grip.

When I was seeking out my first handgun I was in lots of gun shops handling lots of revolvers asking lots of questions. One of the first I handled was a Colt Trooper. With very little handgun shooting experience I knew that was NOT the handgun for me. Trigger reach was long and grip was huge. My nongiantized hands wouldn't be able to hold it properly to shoot it well. No thanks.

Blaster229 · Nov 6, 2017

balttigger said:

I knew someone would post this. LOL

Blaster229 · Nov 6, 2017

When you use any sort of laser/light/aiming help device, all you are doing is concentrating on that stupid laser. How in the world grand master shooters of past and present became great shooters without such "training aids" is beyond me. :/
When you shoot actual ammo, are you going to have that stupid laser light thingy attached to help you? There is NO replacement for concentrating on a clear front sight, blurry bullseye, and a good trigger pull.
When you learn enough to concentrate on that front sight, your trigger press will fall into place. I don't care where your finger is placed on the trigger, when you concentrate on that front sight and press slow enough, your grip will adjust accordingly because you are keeping that sight picture on target.

Seems you need to do 2 things at the range. First, you need to just shoot the pistol willy nilly at the target to get used to the recoil. Second, load 1 round at a time and shoot while concentrating on a nice, clear front sight. Slowly. This will allow you to see how your hand/fingers/grip work in conjunction with your aiming. People shoot waaaaaaay too fast. Go slow, make nice shots and get confident first. 1 round at a time slows you down by default. This allows you to reset and start over. When you have 15 rounds loaded, it's always a rush to get to the end of the mag. 1 round at a time also breaks the anticipation of recoil of the next rounds. Once you get in the habit of being rock steady after that 1 round, the following rounds won't mean anything to you.

Just my .02

Magnumite · Nov 6, 2017

"People shoot waaaaaaay too fast. Go slow, make nice shots and get confident first. 1 round at a time slows you down by default. This allows you to reset and start over. "

True. "You can't shoot faster than you can shoot". Brian Enos, Beyond Fundamentals

Blaster229 · Nov 6, 2017

Magnumite said:
"People shoot waaaaaaay too fast. Go slow, make nice shots and get confident first. 1 round at a time slows you down by default. This allows you to reset and start over. "

True. "You can't shoot faster than you can shoot". Brian Enos, Beyond Fundamentals

Thanks for that look up. I'll check it out. :thumbsup:

Mark75H · Nov 6, 2017

Try increasing your grip with your support hand so you can slightly relax your strong hand and reduce the instinctive curl of your other 3 fingers.

Blaster229 · Nov 6, 2017

Mark75H said:
Try increasing your grip with your support hand so you can slightly relax your strong hand and reduce the instinctive curl of your other 3 fingers.

Doing this allows sympathetic movement of the hand(re-squeezing) when pressing the trigger. You don't want your hand gripping like milking a cow when pressing that trigger. that's why we keep a firm grip.
The whole idea of a smooth trigger is to have it press without any interference/movement with that hand. Pressing that "reduced curl" makes the hand squeeze, thus moving the pistol.
There is a "sweet spot" along the inside radius of that finger curl that presses straight back, if one is so inclined to find a straight back press. Which is not needed. Preferable, but not needed.
The grip strength of the hand is much greater than a finger. Any lateral movement acting on the gun, through the trigger, from the finger is counteracted by a good, firm grip.

Smooth trigger (by any placed position) is key. A jerked trigger on a perfect position, is not favorable.

Mark75H · Nov 6, 2017

Blaster229 said:
Doing this allows sympathetic movement of the hand(re-squeezing) when pressing the trigger. You don't want your hand gripping like milking a cow when pressing that trigger. that's why we keep a firm grip.
The whole idea of a smooth trigger is to have it press without any interference/movement with that hand. Pressing that "reduced curl" makes the hand squeeze, thus moving the pistol.
There is a "sweet spot" along the inside radius of that finger curl that presses straight back, if one is so inclined to find a straight back press. Which is not needed. Preferable, but not needed.
The grip strength of the hand is much greater than a finger. Any lateral movement acting on the gun, through the trigger, from the finger is counteracted by a good, firm grip.

Smooth trigger (by any placed position) is key. A jerked trigger on a perfect position, is not favorable.

Depends on which you are doing worse. Everyone is different, that's why there are different guns, cars and houses.

It is something for the OP to try. If it doesn't work for him, it doesn't work for him. If it does, it does. We are not all the same.

Tungsten · Nov 6, 2017

Good suggestions everyone. I'll definitely implement a couple of them.

Magnumite · Nov 7, 2017

The gripping muscles of the hand are actually extensions of the same forearm muscle. To prevent sympathetic tightening of the gripping fingers (milking). This means one would have to grip pistol with a 7 pound trigger with 8 pounds of force. Then the trigger finger would be 'catching up' to the other fingers and not pulling the gun out of alignment. It would also the pull seem lighter. One would also have to grip firmly enough to keep the pistol from shifting during recoil.

Blaster229 · Nov 7, 2017

Magnumite said:
The gripping muscles of the hand are actually extensions of the same forearm muscle. To prevent sympathetic tightening of the gripping fingers (milking). This means one would have to grip pistol with a 7 pound trigger with 8 pounds of force. Then the trigger finger would be 'catching up' to the other fingers and not pulling the gun out of alignment. It would also the pull seem lighter. One would also have to grip firmly enough to keep the pistol from shifting during recoil.

Huh?

fred333 · Nov 15, 2017

Tungsten said:
Any tips and tricks to fix it?

Get yourself a SIRT pistol (or similar) and practice, practice, practice.

Erratic With Trigger Right Before Firing

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