Reloading in civilian self defense shootings?

cb51 · Jan 15, 2018

Has anyone ever heard, read, or seen a civilian shooting that was a self defense type of scenario, that required a reload and more shooting?

I've watched all kinds of surveillance camera footage and news reports, but I've never seen a reload done. It still seems to be over in a few seconds and a few shots.

Any LEO's here chime in.

Exuberon · Jan 15, 2018

I also think one may be hard pressed to find many civilian shooting cases that involved a reload. As you said, usually civilian on civilian shooting situations are quickly resolved and done with one clip/magazine/cylinder. However, a quick reload is always a good skill to keep in practice and muscle memory for your firearm of choice. An empty gun is no use to you....YMMV

We are “legally” limited to only 10 rounds in this state; so that doesn’t go very far and you’ll get FAR less rounds if you prefer/use a revolver or shotgun. As always consider your intended use, threat risks/scenario and your skill. I always have at least one spare clip/speed loader/shell card ready for reload. Also consider typical LEO/911 response time for your situation.

Cases that I can think of that may involve reloads would be home defense vs gang, home defense vs animal, or any wilderness scenario. I’m sure some other memebers will have some other case examples and opinions.
:popcorn:

3paul10 · Jan 15, 2018

Exuberon: please be careful with incorrect information. We are not "legally limited to ten rounds" of carry in this state....you can only buy 10 round mags in this state, it has nothing to do with what is in your gun.

Exuberon · Jan 15, 2018

3paul10 said:
Exuberon: please be careful with incorrect information. We are not "legally limited to ten rounds" of carry in this state....you can only buy 10 round mags in this state, it has nothing to do with what is in your gun.

You are correct: and for clarification.....in Maryland it is “Illegal to purchase, sell or manufacture magazines with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds within Maryland. However, possession of magazines greater than 10 rounds is legal if purchased out of state. These may not, however, be transferred to a subsequent owner unless done so outside the state of Maryland.”

However (loopholes notwithstanding) it was the MD’s main “intent” to limit firearms to 10 (+1) rounds before a reload is necessary. Not everyone goes to the trouble of going out of state to get higher capacity magazines.

Anyways back to the topic of the OP......

DC-W · Jan 15, 2018

Maryland's law in regard to magazines http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2018rs/statute_google/gcr/4-305.pdf:

§4–305.

(a) This section does not apply to:
(1) a .22 caliber rifle with a tubular magazine; or

(2) a law enforcement officer or a person who retired in good standing from service with a law enforcement agency of the United States, the State, or any law enforcement agency in the State.

(b) A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds of ammunition for a firearm.

It is not unlawful for someone to merely possess or carry magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds. For those limited to 10 round magazines, it is entirely legal to carry one in the chamber as well. 10+1 is just fine.

montoya32 · Jan 15, 2018

DC-W said:
Maryland's law in regard to magazines http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2018rs/statute_google/gcr/4-305.pdf:

It is not unlawful for someone to merely possess or carry magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds. For those limited to 10 round magazines, it is entirely legal to carry one in the chamber as well. 10+1 is just fine.

The bump stock bill adds penalties for "committing a crime" with a magazine holding more than 10 rounds. If that bill passes, an unlawful shooting by a lawful permit holder will have an added penalty of 5-20 years.

"A person who uses an assault weapon, A BUMP STOCK, or a magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds of ammunition, in the commission of a felony or a crime of violence as defined in § 5–101 of the Public Safety Article is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction, in addition to any other sentence imposed for the felony or crime of violence, shall be sentenced under this subsection."

Blaster229 · Jan 15, 2018

I classify shootings in 2 categories, self defense shooting and shoot outs. Shoot outs never occur and those would usually require reloads. To me, a shoot out happens at distances that are not "self defense close".

Self defense shootings are successful because of the surprise of having a weapon is on the part of the victim. They get that 1 or 2 shots off in short, accurate order and it's over. Highly unlikely a quality factory manufactured brand pistol with factory manufactured ammo will fail on the first round. Just my dumb opinion.

I'll try and be the first to say "extra mags are for malfunctions and not for more ammo".

(people will repeat this over and over)

DC-W · Jan 15, 2018

montoya32 said:
The bump stock bill adds penalties for "committing a crime" with a magazine holding more than 10 rounds. If that bill passes, an unlawful shooting by a lawful permit holder will have an added penalty of 5-20 years.

"A person who uses an assault weapon, A BUMP STOCK, or a magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds of ammunition, in the commission of a felony or a crime of violence as defined in § 5–101 of the Public Safety Article is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction, in addition to any other sentence imposed for the felony or crime of violence, shall be sentenced under this subsection."

It already is a crime to use a magazine greater than 10 rounds in the commission of a felony or crime of violence. The bump stock bill only adds the bump stock language.

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2018rs/statute_google/gcr/4-306.pdf

montoya32 · Jan 15, 2018

DC-W said:
It already is a crime to use a magazine greater than 10 rounds in the commission of a felony or crime of violence. The bump stock bill only adds the bump stock language.

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2018rs/statute_google/gcr/4-306.pdf

When did that happen? So as I read it, it's only for these violent crimes:

"abduction;
(2) arson in the first degree;
(3) assault in the first or second degree;
(4) burglary in the first, second, or third degree;
(5) carjacking and armed carjacking;
(6) escape in the first degree;
(7) kidnapping;
(8) voluntary manslaughter;
(9) maiming as previously proscribed under former Article 27, § 386 of the Code;
(10) mayhem as previously proscribed under former Article 27, § 384 of the Code;
(11) murder in the first or second degree;
(12) rape in the first or second degree;
(13) robbery;
(14) robbery with a dangerous weapon;
(15) sexual offense in the first, second, or third degree;
(16) home invasion under § 6–202(b) of the Criminal Law Article;
(17) an attempt to commit any of the crimes listed in items (1) through (16) of this subsection; or
(18) assault with intent to commit any of the crimes listed in items (1) through (16) of this subsection or a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than 1 year."

rob · Jan 15, 2018

DC-W said:
It already is a crime to use a magazine greater than 10 rounds in the commission of a felony or crime of violence. The bump stock bill only adds the bump stock language.

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2018rs/statute_google/gcr/4-306.pdf

I can't wait to vacate this f'ed up state...

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

3paul10 · Jan 15, 2018

Exuberon said:
You are correct: and for clarification.....in Maryland it is “Illegal to purchase, sell or manufacture magazines with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds within Maryland. However, possession of magazines greater than 10 rounds is legal if purchased out of state. These may not, however, be transferred to a subsequent owner unless done so outside the state of Maryland.”

However (loopholes notwithstanding) it was the MD’s main “intent” to limit firearms to 10 (+1) rounds before a reload is necessary. Not everyone goes to the trouble of going out of state to get higher capacity magazines.

Anyways back to the topic of the OP......

I don't know what the State of Maryland's "intent" was when they made this silly law....and I'm not sure how you "know" the ""intent" was....

DC-W · Jan 15, 2018

montoya32 said:
When did that happen?

FSA 2013, baby.

John from MD · Jan 15, 2018

DC-W said:
It already is a crime to use a magazine greater than 10 rounds in the commission of a felony or crime of violence. The bump stock bill only adds the bump stock language.

Hell, it's already a crime to commit a crime.

3paul10 · Jan 15, 2018

Wait....its illegal to commit a crime?

hogarth · Jan 15, 2018

John Correia of Active Self Protection has now viewed seven or ten thousand videos, and I think has seen either one or zero reloads performed by civilians.

Tom Givens has had some of his students get into self-defense shootings that had the students fire 8, 11, & 12 rounds. None of them required a reload (which should give some indication of what they were carrying). Three of his students (possibly some of hose three above) have gone to slide lock.

Biggfoot44 · Jan 15, 2018

Harry Beckwith .

alucard0822 · Jan 15, 2018

There was one case of a gunshop owner that fired 100+ rounds including reloads to stop 2 carloads of burglars out of a couple long guns. Read an article about a stop-n-rob owner that used multiple handguns and spare mags to stop multiple robbers, A LOT where the attacker wasn't stopped after the defender went to slide lock or an empty cylinder. A significant portion of police shootings involve reloads or at least ,multiple officers running empty, and a number of attackers that were not stopped by the typical 6-10 rounds found in compact CCWs. Not sure of a specific case involving a CCer who had to perform a reload during a defensive shoot. I know it's exceedingly rare, but between malfunctions, inadvertently dropping a mag, or the ability to top off a pistol after defensive use, a spare mag is a good idea.

DC-W · Jan 15, 2018

It's good -- necessary I'd say -- to carry at least one spare magazine if you carry a semi-auto.
Malfunctions happen. Drops happen. Shit happens.

As for specific instances of defensive gun uses (DGUs) where a mag change or more ammunition was needed: that's hard to search for given how sparsely DGUs are reported, even harder when you consider how accurate a report may be.

GUNSnROTORS · Jan 15, 2018

3paul10 said:
Exuberon: please be careful with incorrect information. We are not "legally limited to ten rounds" of carry in this state....you can only buy 10 round mags in this state, it has nothing to do with what is in your gun.

Absolutely.

Exuberon said:
You are correct: and for clarification.....in Maryland it is “Illegal to purchase, sell or manufacture magazines with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds within Maryland. However, possession of magazines greater than 10 rounds is legal if purchased out of state. These may not, however, be transferred to a subsequent owner unless done so outside the state of Maryland.”

However (loopholes notwithstanding) it was the MD’s main “intent” to limit firearms to 10 (+1) rounds before a reload is necessary. Not everyone goes to the trouble of going out of state to get higher capacity magazines.

Anyways back to the topic of the OP......

There are no loopholes. "Loophole" in this context is anti-gun terminology, and typically used against 2A principles. No different than ARs labeled "assault weapons", a brick of .22lr as "a stockpile", or your gun collection "an arsenal". There is only the law, poorly conceived obviously. You are either in compliance with it or you are not.

3paul10 · Jan 15, 2018

GUNSnROTORS said:
Absolutely.

There are no loopholes. "Loophole" in this context is anti-gun terminology, and typically used against 2A principles. No different than ARs labeled "assault weapons", a brick of .22lr as "a stockpile", or your gun collection "an arsenal". There is only the law, poorly conceived obviously. You are either in compliance with it or you are not.

Thank you sir.

Reloading in civilian self defense shootings?

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