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Old February 28th, 2017, 06:58 PM #31
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Originally Posted by Minuteman View Post
Agreed with most/all the above. It's hypocritical and a really bad idea to ask people if they are carrying concealed; much less to ask them to unload their ccw gun.

Where do people get off asking other people if they are carrying a concealed firearm? This is ridiculous, I don't even ask my closest friends, and know most if not all of them are carrying. It's probably a combination of ignorance or arrogance to ask such a question. If anyone ever asks you if you are carrying anything, look them in the face and say NO! [none of your business asshat!]. Never has the term 'don't ask, don't tell' been more applicable. You are carrying a concealed firearm concealed so others don't know you are armed; so if you had to use it, you have a tactical advantage, you can choose to get involved or not (hopefully), and the presence of a firearm doesn't bring undue attention to you. No cop, judge, lawyer or citizen knows all the thousands of laws; and you don't want to give anyone an excuse to give you grief. For example, how far away is the closest school to that York gun show? What's the law say about that? If you are a good-guy and doing the right thing, it shouldn't matter.

Lastly (I guess this is something of a rant now); people should stop using 'insurance requires it' as an excuse. You got the insurance, so it's what YOU want. Otherwise, don't get insurance or get a better policy.

I am enjoying reading others comments. Maybe if enough of us complained, York might wise up.

This exactly! Insurance is a cop out. Seems like some pro 2a organizations are no better than other businesses that prohibit concealed carry.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 07:42 PM #32
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bottom line you are paying admission to their event. if you choose not to abide by their rules you may choose to depart.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 11:15 PM #33
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Had to do this last year at KOP PA show. Won't do that again. Caught me off guard.

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Old March 3rd, 2017, 10:29 AM #34
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Originally Posted by basscat View Post
This exactly! Insurance is a cop out. Seems like some pro 2a organizations are no better than other businesses that prohibit concealed carry.
The NRA's own gun show insurance application
https://mynrainsurance.com/getmedia/...plication-9-16

I wrote a letter, have written before about the same thing, usually get a polite, but generic response. The NRA usually values the opinions of their membership, feel free to write your own letter or use whatever part of mine you want, if it gets enough attention the practice might actually end.

https://contact.nra.org/contact-us.aspx

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I wanted to contact you about the York, PA gun show, and more specifically a disturbing practice I hope you can help correct. The front door guard repeatedly asked people in line if they had a firearm, pointed to the waist of seemingly random people and asked if a person was carrying, said that ALL firearms had to be checked weither or not they were carry guns. Some simply got out of line and left, possibly disgusted by the policy, or to leave their firearm in their car as a target for theft. When anyone who was lawfully carrying concealed stepped forward, or was discovered, they were told to unload, at which point they drew, muzzled several people in the large crowd, and after ejecting a chambered round and the mag, dry fired the pistol, then it was zip-tied and handed back. After entering the show, some headed right for the bathroom, or a spot in the lobby to cut the zip tie, reload, and reholster. I personally walked right in with my lawful concealed firearm remaining concealed, as I suspect most others did.

When I asked about this incredibly dangerous and pointless practice, I was told it was an insurance requirement, upon researching, I found the NRA's gun show insurance application. Where question d. and k. seem to imply the practice of employing guards to seek out, discover, and disarm lawful concealed carry is supported by the NRA. Question h. though does seem to indicate lawful citizen carry is permitted. I understand the need to check firearms brought for sale, trade or to have services performed, and I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the appearance of outright hypocrisy by the gun community and NRA, especially given that most vendors are open carrying, it gives the impression of "rights for the privileged only". It also creates a dangerous system where citizens lawfully exercising their 2A rights are sought out by security, outed, and forced to disarm in a dangerous and humiliating way. They are then forced to choose between remaining defenseless while transporting large sums of cash or valuable purchases, or loading their firearm and re-arming a soon as they enter the show.

This needs to stop, and I doubt I will attend another gun show till it does. Most other shows in the area simply ask "do you have any firearms to check", and these problems don't happen. If it is simply a matter of signage or clarifying that it does not apply to lawfully carried defensive firearms, then I support that. If the policy of prohibiting lawful citizens from carrying in this instance is an NRA policy through your insurance procedures, then it must stop now.
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Old March 3rd, 2017, 10:34 AM #35
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Disarming ccw at the gun show here is largely a dog and pony show. If you walk in with a rifle to sell, obviously they're going to check it and zip tie it. If you walk in with a properly concealed pistol, no one is going to stop you.
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Old March 3rd, 2017, 10:42 AM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protegeV View Post
Disarming ccw at the gun show here is largely a dog and pony show. If you walk in with a rifle to sell, obviously they're going to check it and zip tie it. If you walk in with a properly concealed pistol, no one is going to stop you.
Not necessarily. They do randomly ask you point blank, "Are you carrying?" My guess is if they catch you not telling the truth, they will ask you to leave immediately.

I have seen them ask a few folks to lift their jacket too. So, I think they can do more if somehow they find out you are carrying.

The regulars know the routine and don't bring in their weapon. Like I've said, I leave mine at my son's house. I would never leave it in my truck while parked there.
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Old March 3rd, 2017, 10:47 AM #37
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>> The NRA's own gun show insurance application https://mynrainsurance.com/getmedia/...plication-9-16

"Insurance Program Administered by Lockton Affinity, LLC" - That's likely the source of the issue, not the NRA. I imagine there aren't a whole lot of providers willing to issue policies for gun shows, and I imagine there aren't many venues that will allow a large show (gun or otherwise) without a suitable policy in place.
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Old March 3rd, 2017, 10:51 AM #38
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Originally Posted by j_h_smith View Post
Not necessarily. They do randomly ask you point blank, "Are you carrying?" My guess is if they catch you not telling the truth, they will ask you to leave immediately.

I have seen them ask a few folks to lift their jacket too. So, I think they can do more if somehow they find out you are carrying.

The regulars know the routine and don't bring in their weapon. Like I've said, I leave mine at my son's house. I would never leave it in my truck while parked there.
I'm talking about the gun shows by me in TX.

Never been to a PA gun show.
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Old March 3rd, 2017, 10:55 AM #39
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I'm talking about the gun shows by me in TX.

Never been to a PA gun show.
Don't confuse me with facts. Or for that matter with words either.
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Old March 3rd, 2017, 11:15 AM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscat View Post
This exactly! Insurance is a cop out. Seems like some pro 2a organizations are no better than other businesses that prohibit concealed carry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_h_smith View Post
Not necessarily. They do randomly ask you point blank, "Are you carrying?" My guess is if they catch you not telling the truth, they will ask you to leave immediately.

I have seen them ask a few folks to lift their jacket too. So, I think they can do more if somehow they find out you are carrying.

The regulars know the routine and don't bring in their weapon. Like I've said, I leave mine at my son's house. I would never leave it in my truck while parked there.
I carry everywhere I can up here, plenty of places, gun show included have BS policies about it, or might ask, and I'll reply "nope" every time. The day they want to search me or install metal detectors for their BS is the last time I'll go to their stupid show and work to fight it harder than any other gun ban. I do like going to gun shows, and I hate when the news, politicians, or random libs I might interact with get to point out a glaring hypocrisy, or justification for them to ban firearms in one instance or another. So I'll bitch to the promoter , NRA and insurer about it now, so hopefully it doesn't get any worse.
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