Gun Trust Questions

huntman21014 · Aug 13, 2012

I posted this in the NFA section but was wondering if this might be the proper place

I am a new member and just have some questions so that I do not violate any of the inane republic of maryland gun laws. I want to purchase a handgun and supressor but am only 20.

My goal is to set up a gun trust for all of the NFA toys I plan to buy but don't want to wait another year to get paperwork started that will take months.

If someone who is over 21 is also in the trust can the trust purchase registered handguns in the state of Maryland? I know I am going to need to consult a lawyer for the trust but before I start the hourly clock I want to see if this is even possible.

I know the law is 21 to purchase a handgun in MD but 18 to own one and FFL's can't transfer to anyone under 21. Since the trust would be purchasing the handgun not a person under 21 could it be transferred FFL?

Boom Boom · Aug 13, 2012

Welcome aboard. Please refrain from creating multiple threads for the same topic. Admins can move a single thread if the need arises.

FFBWMD · Aug 13, 2012

Sure the trust could probably "own" them, but you couldnt posess them because you are under 21 years of age. Stop trying to circumvent the law and just wait til your 21!!!

clandestine · Aug 13, 2012

MSP wont currently allow a Handgun to be Transferred to a Trust/Corporation unless the Entity is in Security/Armored Car Operations. While this may or may not be legal, they hold the cards and until someone with lots of money challenges them it wont change.

From what I understand of Trusts, you cannot be a trustee because your not an eligible person (Under 21 makes you inelligible). You can be listed as a beneficiary on the Trust but that does not entitle you to posess any asset in the Trust unless its Ammended when you turn 21.

I may be wrong on the second point, but Legal Representation is what you need. A Member named Rusty Shackleford is a Trust Attorney and can assist you in answering your questions. Im not sure if he charges a consult fee, but if he does its WORTH IT.

IMHO, your better off waiting till you turn 21 and handling it all straightforward.

huntman21014 · Aug 13, 2012

clandestine said:
MSP wont currently allow a Handgun to be Transferred to a Trust/Corporation unless the Entity is in Security/Armored Car Operations. While this may or may not be legal, they hold the cards and until someone with lots of money challenges them it wont change.

From what I understand of Trusts, you cannot be a trustee because your not an eligible person (Under 21 makes you inelligible). You can be listed as a beneficiary on the Trust but that does not entitle you to posess any asset in the Trust unless its Ammended when you turn 21.

I may be wrong on the second point, but Legal Representation is what you need. A Member named Rusty Shackleford is a Trust Attorney and can assist you in answering your questions. Im not sure if he charges a consult fee, but if he does its WORTH IT.

IMHO, your better off waiting till you turn 21 and handling it all straightforward.

I know the easiest thing to do would be to wait until I turn 21 but plan on setting up the trust anyway for NFA items as my local LEO has already said he will not sign off on supressors or short barrel rifles under any circumstances. Getting ATF paperwork is a huge hassle and waiting until I turn 21 turns a 3 month process into a 9+ month process.

Legally I can own a pistol but cannot purchase one in the state of maryland and if I had a good and substantial reason could get a CCP. The problem is the state won't transfer to someone under 21 and FFL's cannot transfer a handgun to someone under 21.

If the pistol is exempt from the handgun roster would MSP even get involved in a transfer if a FFL transferred the pistol to the trust?

Boom Boom · Aug 13, 2012

As clandestine mentioned, it's best if you consult with a MD trust attorney. There are too many legal issues and it requires too much discussion of sensitive personal circumstances and information to effectively address the issue here.

huntman21014 · Aug 13, 2012

I have a different question then, I have dual residency as I have legal addresses in both MD and PA. If I bought a handgun in Pennsylvania as a PA resident couldn't I just drive the gun to my home in MD without registering it at all? To simplify I can purchase a handgun in PA since my residence is there but can I simply bring it to my MD residence.

Lex Armarum · Aug 14, 2012

I responded in the NFA section. I'm not going to repost.

huntman21014 · Aug 14, 2012

Rusty Shackleford said:
I responded in the NFA section. I'm not going to repost.

Thanks I have asked a moderator to merge the threads

clandestine · Aug 14, 2012

Huntman, you need to listen to Rusty. This is NOT a game.

lx1x · Aug 14, 2012

*sniffs* hmmm.. fishy.

mikec · Aug 14, 2012

huntman21014 said:
I know the easiest thing to do would be to wait until I turn 21 but plan on setting up the trust anyway for NFA items as my local LEO has already said he will not sign off on supressors or short barrel rifles under any circumstances. Getting ATF paperwork is a huge hassle and waiting until I turn 21 turns a 3 month process into a 9+ month process.

Legally I can own a pistol but cannot purchase one in the state of maryland and if I had a good and substantial reason could get a CCP. The problem is the state won't transfer to someone under 21 and FFL's cannot transfer a handgun to someone under 21.

If the pistol is exempt from the handgun roster would MSP even get involved in a transfer if a FFL transferred the pistol to the trust?

In MD, MSP will sign off on the ATF forms so you can forget that issue.

Dogabutila · Aug 14, 2012

Wait a year.

huntman21014 · Aug 14, 2012

Dogabutila said:
Wait a year.

I know that is the simple and easy answer it just irks the hell out of me is all and I was hoping there was some loophole to shave some months off the process.

I just don't see why someone who is in the trust and is fully able to purchase the handgun cannot put the handgun in the trust and since I am also named in the trust cannot take possession of the firearm.

lx1x · Aug 14, 2012

there it goes.. the famous loopholes.

try different forum. we dont condone illegal stuff here. read the rules.

huntman21014 · Aug 14, 2012

Loophole and illegal are not the same thing, setting up a trust just for NFA items to get around the CLEO signature is a loophole correct? I don't see anything illegal with a trust owning a firearm and someone authorized by the trust to take possession of said firearm. There is nothing illegal with doing that but whether it will stand up in the republic of maryland and the MSP is a completely different question.

I am not trying to break any laws nor am I asking for advice on how to break any laws

Lex Armarum · Aug 14, 2012

mikec said:
In MD, MSP will sign off on the ATF forms so you can forget that issue.

Not if you have a trust but that's beside the issue; OP is looking to purchase a regulated firearm via trust thereby circumventing the state prohibition on purchase by those under 21. That's known as conspiracy to commit a felony and, under Maryland wacky interpretation of firearms ownership law, likely a straw purchase as well.

Good times. Look at about 10 years or more there bub.

Its not necessarily his acts or those of his trustee that are illegal, it is the intent of those actions as demonstrated by his OP which clearly shows and inclination to team up with a permitted person in an effort to allow an unpermitted person to purchase and possess a regulated firearm.

That said, if OP is a PA resident, why not just purchase there if legal to do so? Why try and circumvent Maryland laws and risk jail when you can purchase the item legally across state lines? I am not commenting on whether OP legally can do this of course, just asking some questions that my sleep fogged mind spit out.

Lex Armarum · Aug 14, 2012

huntman21014 said:
Loophole and illegal are not the same thing, setting up a trust just for NFA items to get around the CLEO signature is a loophole correct? I don't see anything illegal with a trust owning a firearm and someone authorized by the trust to take possession of said firearm. There is nothing illegal with doing that but whether it will stand up in the republic of maryland and the MSP is a completely different question.

I am not trying to break any laws nor am I asking for advice on how to break any laws

Setting up a trust to manage NFA property for the benefit of others is not a loophole so quit using that language. Words have meanings, use them appropriately. Said trusts are part of and integral to the law. Said trusts do not circumvent any legal protections; rather, they are part of a subset of NFA owners who are not subject to the individual possessor/purchaser requirements.

A loophole is a flaw or gap in the law whereby ne'er-do-wells can plausibly justify their spurious actions.

Lex Armarum · Aug 14, 2012

Sorry for all of the typos... I'm going to bed

Dave.B · Aug 14, 2012

huntman21014 said:
Loophole and illegal are not the same thing, setting up a trust just for NFA items to get around the CLEO signature is a loophole correct? I don't see anything illegal with a trust owning a firearm and someone authorized by the trust to take possession of said firearm. There is nothing illegal with doing that but whether it will stand up in the republic of maryland and the MSP is a completely different question.

I am not trying to break any laws nor am I asking for advice on how to break any laws

But you are underage and cannot possess a regulated firearm in Maryland. Using a trust to get around the law is not a loophole, it is a crime.

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