Virginia transgenders get new birth certificates

JerseyMike said:

The intolerance in this thread is pretty disappointing. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I’m surprised to see people who supposedly advocate for 2A rights mocking a marginalized group of people and even going as far as saying they should have their rights taken away.



Not a good look guys, the LGBTQ community is becoming more open to guns and I would hope that the people here, regardless of their personal views on LGBTQ issues, would be welcoming and encourage these individuals to exercise their rights. Or at the very least maybe just not openly mock them here? When I was researching gun ownership in MD this forum was a top hit in Google. LGBTQ individuals who do the same will likely see posts like this.

I’m not trying to tell anyone their opinion or beliefs are wrong, just asking that you rethink threads like this in the future.

I really appreciate all of the knowledge and wisdom that you share on these forums, and I even appreciate seeing the conservative point of view on issues related to 2A rights. You all seem like a good bunch of people, and while your intent may not have been to make fun of trans individuals that’s what it’s turning into, and the post I quoted is a clear example of how it can easily go too far.

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#13 Mike’s way!

I don’t even know what you wrote, I just like your screen name.

pbharvey said:

#13 Mike’s way!

I don’t even know what you wrote, I just like your screen name.

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Hah thanks! If you ever make it up to the New Brunswick area in Jersey (say for a Rutger’s football game) you have to try what they call “fat” sandwiches. It’s basically a cheesesteak combined with an appetizer sampler platter. I.e. steak + cheese + onion rings + mozarella sticks + fries all on one sandwich.

JerseyMike said:

The intolerance in this thread is pretty disappointing. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I’m surprised to see people who supposedly advocate for 2A rights mocking ...blah blah blah

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I'd be willing to bet 95% of the people on this forum are fine with whatever lifestyle you or anyone else chooses to live.

The problem the majority of people have with the LGBTQ community is the enabling of a mental disorder. We don't issue two driver's licenses to people with Disassociate Identity Disorder, so why would we issue new birth certificates to people with Gender Identity Disorders?

Call it what it is - a mental disorder - and you are immediately marked as "hateful". So if you agree that schizophrenia is a mental disorder, then you must also "hate" schizophrenics...right? It's utter BS.

The scorn and mocking you see with relation to these subjects is rightfully heaped on those that use a mental disorder as a political tool to change societal norms. Sorry, but I'm not rolling over for the BS "you just hate them" argument. The hypocrisy of the Left on this entire issue is astounding.

When Liberals devour their own. Feminists will regret this in the not too distant future. It will end women's athletic sports. More confused biological males will self identify as women and compete all while their parents cheer on their athletic scholarship possibilities.

I have no hatred or malice towards adults who sincerely want to change genders. It’s there business. I don’t think it should be paid for by tax payers and I don’t think they should have some special protections under the law.

I think the problem with this bill is this statement:

“There is not a specific standard approach for an individual’s transition. Treatment could include any of the following: counseling, hormone therapy, sex reassignment surgery, or a patient-specific approach from the medical provider.”

The fact that there is no-standard to what would qualify as “Treatment”, means anything goes. There are doctors who will write opioid prescriptions without medical reason and purely for profit, so I suspect there will be Doctors who will validate Treatment purely for profit or political reasons.

It’s a shitstorm in the making and it will be abused. The that tax payers should be concerned about is not the $25 it might cost to reissue a birth certificate. (Assuming the process is actually free). The bigger cost managing the can of worms this opens up. If an 18yr boy old in HS gets some doctor to simply say “My patient is undergoing treatment for gender transitions”, then he gets a new birth certificate as a women. Applies to collages as a woman and reaps all of the special financial benefits set aside by federal and state institutions to promote equality for women in sports, education and in public/private sector business.

Once you have legally binding documents being issued based on conditions without standards, the legal value of those documents are reduced for everyone!

Bottom line it would just be cheaper more effective to remove sex identification from all identification and remove it as a means to scrutinize applications public and private and eliminate all benefits associated with gender.

Wouldn't it be easier just to issue them a mental disability certificate....?

JerseyMike said:

The intolerance in this thread is pretty disappointing. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I’m surprised to see people who supposedly advocate for 2A rights mocking a marginalized group of people and even going as far as saying they should have their rights taken away.

You’ve opened Pandora’s Box...or more correctly, you’ve commented on a huge example of the liberal version of Pandora’s Box.


Not a good look guys, the LGBTQ community is becoming more open to guns and I would hope that the people here, regardless of their personal views on LGBTQ issues, would be welcoming and encourage these individuals to exercise their rights. Or at the very least maybe just not openly mock them here? When I was researching gun ownership in MD this forum was a top hit in Google. LGBTQ individuals who do the same will likely see posts like this.

I’m not trying to tell anyone their opinion or beliefs are wrong, just asking that you rethink threads like this in the future.

I really appreciate all of the knowledge and wisdom that you share on these forums, and I even appreciate seeing the conservative point of view on issues related to 2A rights. You all seem like a good bunch of people, and while your intent may not have been to make fun of trans individuals that’s what it’s turning into, and the post I quoted is a clear example of how it can easily go too far.

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Just so you look at both sides...we are the new “queers”. We are being treated collectively and with extreme disdain. Old white freedom embracing gun loving guys are today made out to be pure evil. For no other reason than who we are and have been. We are universally assigned every manner of epithet and damning title. Not an excuse for ignorant/bad behavior. Not my intention.

For all those “special”, different, diverse classes of people...I turn the table. Why is MY reputation and social damning the cost of their elevation in the social scheme because that’s exactly what’s going on imo. Invariably, “counselors” employ a system that helps person A feel better about themselves/their condition at the cost of blaming/damning person B to person A. Intellectually dishonest imo. But looks a lot like they’ve torn out that page of the manual and employ the technique against deplorable folks like me. This shit ain’t about right and or wrong. It is instead about PC and social division. Hatred. Anger. Doubt. These are the tools of the left. Truth be damned. That is simply WRONG. Not an excuse. I get it. But important context.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. You are correct.

Think about red flag for a minute. Anyone can, without real evidence, assert any of us deplorables (for example) as a dangerous/unbalanced individual and result in a God given Constitutionally enshrined right to be summarily taken away. Thus the notion of due process is in the sh1tter.

I’m gonna say I’m personally pretty open to whatever. I don’t care what color, if or where you worship/go to church, or what you identify as. Truly. OTOH, it’s been my experience (limited as it is) that there’s a somewhat relatively high percentage of trans folks who act angry and appear to this layman to be actually and demonstrably unstable. Not all. Certainly some. What I note and react to is character. I’ll give “ya” (whomever i might meet on the street) the benefit of the doubt if I meet you somewhere. Right up until ya show me you’re an arsehole and or not to be trusted. Then all bets are off. Character doesn’t give a flying fluck about sexuality, religion, color or any other classifier. “Chip on your shoulder” is generally an invite for trouble.

Character is NOT THE SAME THING AS ACTUAL PHYSICAL OR EMOTIONAL QUALIFICATION. There’s lots of great physical specimens who are emotional wrecks. They have no business serving our country in the military either.

For this very same reason, FWIMBW, I will not support trans folks in the military. Forgetting any ongoing medical procedures limiting their deployability, I am confident that mental instability is a disqualifier for entry or continued service. It has always been that way. It is logical, rational and righteous. IAM NOT saying all trans are mentally unstable. I AM SAYING there’s a pretty good percentage that at some point are unstable. Look at the business case. It has a huge likelihood of negatively impacting mission readiness and execution. The potential costs to military and taxpayer is not inconsequential. Why would we knowingly buy into a service member who can’t serve?

I also VIGOROUSLY OBJECT FTR to folks who are offended on behalf of other folks. Not saying that’s what’s happening here but...

I ain’t defending anyone or any post in this thread. I am replying to what feels like a “universal guilt trip” against a community I’m a member of. I roger for the implicit message. There’s an awful lot of context to the greater issue. There’s always more than one side to an issue. I say again, the interwebs ARE NOT WELL SUITED TO DIALOG.

If you want to be offended by my opinion, I’ve got some tougher skin for sale in the Classified.

5cary said:

I'd be willing to bet 95% of the people on this forum are fine with whatever lifestyle you or anyone else chooses to live.

The problem the majority of people have with the LGBTQ community is the enabling of a mental disorder. We don't issue two driver's licenses to people with Disassociate Identity Disorder, so why would we issue new birth certificates to people with Gender Identity Disorders?

Call it what it is - a mental disorder - and you are immediately marked as "hateful". So if you agree that schizophrenia is a mental disorder, then you must also "hate" schizophrenics...right? It's utter BS.

The scorn and mocking you see with relation to these subjects is rightfully heaped on those that use a mental disorder as a political tool to change societal norms. Sorry, but I'm not rolling over for the BS "you just hate them" argument. The hypocrisy of the Left on this entire issue is astounding.

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Bingo Sir

BINGO

This is bs. Unless you have a very rare genetic defect, people are born male or female. That does not change because you are deluded into thinking you are something you are not. A male that wants to live as a female is just that, they are NOT a female.

How does this work for gender fluid people that may be either gender on any given day? Do they get two birth certificates and just grab the one they want for that day?

Everyone who responded, again I am not trying to argue with you regarding how you view a specific LGBTQ issue. We just fundamentally disagree and I am not going to come on here and tell you that you are wrong in your beliefs.

If you have concerns about how the LGBTQ movement is having a detrimental impact on society then by all means exercise your rights and let your voice be heard. My point is very simple. If you openly mock LGBTQ individuals here it undermines 2A advocacy and can serve to unnecessarily drive away potential allies in the advocacy fight. Let’s not ostracize “the left” or “liberals” by giving fuel to their arguments that 2A advocates are racists, bigots, etc. I suggest separating your views on LBGTQ issues from second amendment advocacy.

My big concern, and the reason I decided to comment, is I saw someone actually state trans individuals should not be afforded their 2A rights. If anyone thinks that trans individuals are not entitled to the rights secured by the second amendment, I suggest that you take a moment to reflect on the meaning of “shall not be infringed”. Can you really argue that the government cannot regulate firearms, but then state that trans individuals are not fit to own firearms?

JerseyMike said:

Everyone who responded, again I am not trying to argue with you regarding how you view a specific LGBTQ issue. We just fundamentally disagree and I am not going to come on here and tell you that you are wrong in your beliefs.

If you have concerns about how the LGBTQ movement is having a detrimental impact on society then by all means exercise your rights and let your voice be heard. My point is very simple. If you openly mock LGBTQ individuals here it undermines 2A advocacy and can serve to unnecessarily drive away potential allies in the advocacy fight. Let’s not ostracize “the left” or “liberals” by giving fuel to their arguments that 2A advocates are racists, bigots, etc. I suggest separating your views on LBGTQ issues from second amendment advocacy.

My big concern, and the reason I decided to comment, is I saw someone actually state trans individuals should not be afforded their 2A rights. If anyone thinks that trans individuals are not entitled to the rights secured by the second amendment, I suggest that you take a moment to reflect on the meaning of “shall not be infringed”. Can you really argue that the government cannot regulate firearms, but then state that trans individuals are not fit to own firearms?

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Nope. Generalizations are UNSAT.

JerseyMike said:

Hah thanks! If you ever make it up to the New Brunswick area in Jersey (say for a Rutger’s football game) you have to try what they call “fat” sandwiches. It’s basically a cheesesteak combined with an appetizer sampler platter. I.e. steak + cheese + onion rings + mozarella sticks + fries all on one sandwich.

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I miss the grease trucks

Being able to change your birth certificate for gender will open the door for business abuse just like men competing in women's sports.
Women can become a Women Business Enterprise (WBE) which entitles them to government contracts that evil white men can't receive.
There's a big advantage to this.

Taking this further, if you can change you gender via a birth certificate, why not be able to change your race?
Being a Minority Business Enterprise, (MBE) gives companies an even bigger advantage to government business.
I can see this dynamic unfolding, just wait!

JerseyMike said:

Everyone who responded, again I am not trying to argue with you regarding how you view a specific LGBTQ issue. We just fundamentally disagree and I am not going to come on here and tell you that you are wrong in your beliefs.

If you have concerns about how the LGBTQ movement is having a detrimental impact on society then by all means exercise your rights and let your voice be heard. My point is very simple. If you openly mock LGBTQ individuals here it undermines 2A advocacy and can serve to unnecessarily drive away potential allies in the advocacy fight. Let’s not ostracize “the left” or “liberals” by giving fuel to their arguments that 2A advocates are racists, bigots, etc. I suggest separating your views on LBGTQ issues from second amendment advocacy.

My big concern, and the reason I decided to comment, is I saw someone actually state trans individuals should not be afforded their 2A rights. If anyone thinks that trans individuals are not entitled to the rights secured by the second amendment, I suggest that you take a moment to reflect on the meaning of “shall not be infringed”. Can you really argue that the government cannot regulate firearms, but then state that trans individuals are not fit to own firearms?

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You are on an Internet forum. You are going to see all sorts of opinions, including some that make you uncomfortable.

Again I go back to my original analogy: At what point does a mental disorder disqualify you for a firearm? Do (or should) we allow clinical schizophrenics** to own firearms ("shall not be infringed")? Yes, it's an extreme analogy but there are people who believe that there should be limits on mental disorders and firearms ownership.

I'm NOT one of those people that put transgenders and/or homosexuals in those categories - anymore than someone who suffers from agoraphobia (which is a clinical anxiety disorder). But those that do see gender disorders as an "inability to perceive reality" might very well side with those that would support restricted firearms access for those affected.

Just my unsolicited Internet opinions. They are worth every cent you paid for them - I'm not a psychologist.

** "inability to discern reality" in this context

JerseyMike said:

The intolerance in this thread is pretty disappointing. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I’m surprised to see people who supposedly advocate for 2A rights mocking a marginalized group of people and even going as far as saying they should have their rights taken away.



Not a good look guys, the LGBTQ community is becoming more open to guns and I would hope that the people here, regardless of their personal views on LGBTQ issues, would be welcoming and encourage these individuals to exercise their rights. Or at the very least maybe just not openly mock them here? When I was researching gun ownership in MD this forum was a top hit in Google. LGBTQ individuals who do the same will likely see posts like this.

I’m not trying to tell anyone their opinion or beliefs are wrong, just asking that you rethink threads like this in the future.

I really appreciate all of the knowledge and wisdom that you share on these forums, and I even appreciate seeing the conservative point of view on issues related to 2A rights. You all seem like a good bunch of people, and while your intent may not have been to make fun of trans individuals that’s what it’s turning into, and the post I quoted is a clear example of how it can easily go too far.

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Whatever. It's perfectly reasonable to call out the absurdity of the left, even if it hurts your feelings. I think issuing a new birth certificate (to an adult) is moronic and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Can we just change the word gender to genotypic sex and make all this nonsense go away.

Nnztg8r said:

Nope. Generalizations are UNSAT.

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While I disagree with some of what you said I appreciate the insight in your post #27 in this thread. I despise the fact that “liberals” and “the left” just write-off/ignore the concerns of certain groups, including rural white Americans. The fact that Hillary made that comment demonstrated how “the establishment” really felt about these groups.

I also despise how some “liberals” disdain Trump supporters and, rather than understand and attempt to address their concerns and issues affecting their lives.

But I don’t at all understand what you mean by generalizations being UNSAT, I’m not familiar with that acronym.

JerseyMike said:

While I disagree with some of what you said I appreciate the insight in your post #27 in this thread. I despise the fact that “liberals” and “the left” just write-off/ignore the concerns of certain groups, including rural white Americans. The fact that Hillary made that comment demonstrated how “the establishment” really felt about these groups.

I also despise how some “liberals” disdain Trump supporters and, rather than understand and attempt to address their concerns and issues affecting their lives.

But I don’t at all understand what you mean by generalizations being UNSAT, I’m not familiar with that acronym.

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It was an EXPLICIT agreement with your post above me then.

UNSAT is military speak for unsatisfactory. I try to avoid jargon except when it’s kind of easy to get from context OR when it drives home a point to a specific segment of readers.

snallygaster said:

Whatever. It's perfectly reasonable to call out the absurdity of the left, even if it hurts your feelings. I think issuing a new birth certificate (to an adult) is moronic and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

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I have always enjoyed making toast, even as a youth, and well before my peers were even aware of the bread-to-toast transition. I am certain that making toast is what I was destined to do, in spite of my genetics or labels artificially assigned to me by society. I look forward to selecting "toaster" on my new birth certificate.

MigraineMan said:

I have always enjoyed making toast, even as a youth, and well before my peers were even aware of the bread-to-toast transition. I am certain that making toast is what I was destined to do, in spite of my genetics or labels artificially assigned to me by society. I look forward to selecting "toaster" on my new birth certificate.

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Just don't laugh... you may get shot...