HPRB July 8, 2019 Meeting Thread

Stoveman · Jul 8, 2019

Now how to get Judge Smails to read Hattie's posts.

rbird7282 · Jul 8, 2019

Stoveman said:
Applicant is in ministry and received threatening emails from "Lucifer".

Nothing yet about the usual restrictions argument.

Judge Smials asked if he carried cash and how much?

Since when does cash matter? They changing the standard yet again?

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Stoveman · Jul 8, 2019

rbird7282 said:
Since when does cash matter? They changing the standard yet again?

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Judge Smails is a clueless government bureaucrat. Ronaldus Maximus (God rest his soul) is rolling over in his grave after tonight.

jcutonilli · Jul 8, 2019

Deep Lurker said:
The “Summary” at the beginning of Chapter 6 of the Open Meetings Act Manual, indicates that the “individual” votes of the members of the public body are to be recorded in the Minutes; in this example, legislators voting on laws.

Why would the members of the HPRB, voting in public session under the OMA, and required to report the proceedings and voting outcome (see post #131 above) in the hearing Minutes of the HPRB, not reveal their “individual” votes at the time the votes are taken?

Maybe they are not aware of the requirement. You may want to file a complaint with the Attorney General.

ShafTed · Jul 9, 2019

Hattie said:
Judge Smalkin's apparently multiple references to Snowden and Scherr suggest that he may have received (other than in open session or an announced closed session) either "legal advice" from the Attorney General's office and/or an ex parte communication on the same matter from MSP (again outside either an open session or an announced closed session).

Even assuming the Judge's view on the applicable law is one he formed after independent research on his own, any such research could not have failed to disclose the governing authority provided by the Fourth Circuit's decision in Woollard v Gallagher, 712 F.3d 865 (4th Cir. 2013), wherein the Court held that a lower court finding that Maryland's "good and substantial" requirement was unconstitutional must be reversed because Maryland law allows for wear and carry permits based on "palpable need." The "palpable need" standard thus is the only thing standing between the relevant Maryland law and unconstitutionality, and renders the application of the outdated (and unsupportable) Snowden and Scherr standards patently erroneous. An independent reason why neither Snowden nor Scherr can properly be applied is that neither construed the language of the present statute, and both relied on a "collective right" interpretation of the Second Amendment that the Supreme Court specifically rejected in the Heller and McDonald cases.

One can only hope that any attorney appearing before the HPRB would seek to educate the Judge and other Board members on these issues as well as matters pertaining to the Open Meetings Act.

Maybe the Judge should talk to his successor on the Federal court (a fellow named Ben Legg) about the Woolard case.

welder516 · Jul 9, 2019

That judge is a clueless fool , he is an educated idiot IMHO . He took a crash course in the permit arena by the MSP-LD & or Frosh and is too dumb to realize they are using him as their stooge . Once i heard him speak on that first meeting at Crownsville i knew he was a shill for the state .

rbird7282 · Jul 9, 2019

Sounds like the judge got a ride there in the MSP Clown Car

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Sundazes · Jul 9, 2019

So if this judge is that inept, is there a way for him to be removed?

F5guy · Jul 9, 2019

Even though it was stated at the outset the board are public servants this didn’t seem like a citizen review board to me. More like a quasi legal defender of MSP trying to poke holes in peoples requests and concerns about safety and infringement of rights. This was not brought down to layman’s terms. The Judge telling people to get a lawyer if arrested out of restriction is not only discriminatory but elitist at best. He doesn’t seem to understand or care about the time or expense people go through just to get a permit. Maybe he thinks it shouldn’t be easy, cheap or free but this excludes many PEOPLE who don’t drive fancy cars and cant afford to take off for hearings. The Judge appears to think the MSP is reasonable because they yes sir him and will help rather than be rude to PEOPLE and never helpful. According to his logic, I just don’t understand, why if someone is basically always at work or on call 24/7 and they shouldn’t be worried about being out of restrictions-then why is a restriction needed in the first place. I hope he will study Maryland law and have an open mind going forward. I also hope that woman or the other guy from Forestville with threats against them don’t get killed in the mean time. Lastly while at a stop light on MLK last night windows down on a beautiful evening gunfire rang out reminding me threats are everywhere and law abiding PEOPLE ought to be aloud to defend themselves against criminals who would cause them harm. We cant all have armed guards escort us.

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welder516 · Jul 9, 2019

sundazes said:
So if this judge is that inept, is there a way for him to be removed?

You already know the answer to that ... :innocent0

Hattie · Jul 9, 2019

Question for those who were there:

Did the Board discuss and agree on the new secret-ballot system in the open meeting, or did the Judge simply announce/direct that votes would be handled that way, or did the members seem already "in the know" so that they were prepared for secret ballots without further direction (which would suggest an additional violation of the open meetings act)?

welder516 · Jul 9, 2019

Hattie , not sure if i ever met you but you are sharp and picked up on some great points . Thank You for chiming in on the conversation .

Stoveman · Jul 9, 2019

Hattie said:
Question for those who were there:

Did the Board discuss and agree on the new secret-ballot system in the open meeting, or did the Judge simply announce/direct that votes would be handled that way, or did the members seem already "in the know" so that they were prepared for secret ballots without further direction (which would suggest an additional violation of the open meetings act)?

No discussion of secret ballots, it just happened.

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Not_an_outlaw · Jul 9, 2019

Hattie said:
Question for those who were there:

Did the Board discuss and agree on the new secret-ballot system in the open meeting, or did the Judge simply announce/direct that votes would be handled that way, or did the members seem already "in the know" so that they were prepared for secret ballots without further direction (which would suggest an additional violation of the open meetings act)?

He passed out his SOP at the introductory meeting. I don't recall if that was in there. If so, he may hang his hat on that.

Hattie · Jul 9, 2019

Not_an_outlaw said:
He passed out his SOP at the introductory meeting. I don't recall if that was in there. If so, he may hang his hat on that.

Not in the procedures adopted on June 17, 2019.

motorcoachdoug · Jul 9, 2019

Someone should take Hatties post and just hand it to him and ask him to read it. The worse he could do and or say is no..

F5guy · Jul 9, 2019

I think even Stevi was surprised by the secret ballots

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daggo66 · Jul 9, 2019

Stoveman said:
The former MSP LD Commander just asked Corporal Taylor how many permit holders have been arrested for carrying outside their restrictions. None was the answer.

He then looked at the applicant and said "there, does that make you feel better?"

I SHIT YOU NOT!`

Hagarstown bailbondsman was arrested for carrying outside his restrictions.

Not_an_outlaw · Jul 9, 2019

I don't know how Stevi is swearing people in. Seems like that should be a board task.

It's like little pretend court.

welder516 · Jul 9, 2019

I cannot point to one case of carrying outside of restrictions but I am 99.9% sure it has happened. The MSP-LD is not Immune to lying.

HPRB July 8, 2019 Meeting Thread

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