crossbow broadhead issues

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  • Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I am shooing a Killer Instinct 350 with carbon express Pile drivers with 125 grain target points. I can hit a 2" circle easily at 40 yards. So I pilled up a bunch of paper plate and tried the G5 Montechs and Muzzy Trocars. Both hit 2" right and 1" low consistently. at 20 yards I could be on the edge of the plates. Why is this so far off with braodheads? My daughter ten point hardly moves switching to broadheads.

    Last year I tried the G5's and could find a consistent flight at 20 and 30 yards to feel very comfortable. Does this bow have to get mechanical broadheads? I really don't want to use one as I known friend lost deer with them.
     

    JWBanshee

    Active Member
    Jul 1, 2009
    399
    Not to say the obvious, but are the broadheas the same weight as the field points? most likey are, I shpoot rage mechanicals thry my crossbow and they give you a practice head that is the same sahpe and weight as the broad head, they shoot in the same place. I am in no manner an expert, a friends of mine shoots the rage and wears by them. good luck
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Could be the way the ferrule threads into the insert. When I build arrows for broadheads I will tune the insert to the shaft by drawing a straight line on a board and then drill and set four field points on either side of the line that have been carefully placed.
    Drop your arrow onto the cradle made by the field points and it will support the shaft. Rotate the arrow while closely watching the point and you can see if its not aligned with the line you drew.
    Sometimes heat treating or machining of the threads is not perfect and you can see the point move on and off the line.
    I just use hot melt cement to fix the insert to the shaft and while gently warming you can just push on the broad head into alignment. This is how I adjust my fletching at the same time. My bow likes fixed blades opposite the fletch.
    Someone makes a manufactured jig for this but this is my homespun way. Works both for carbon and aluminum arrow building in my woods for 30+ years.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    Have you tried any mechanicals to see if your fixed blades are planing? Cross bows are like recurves and compounds. They all shoot differently, the same arrow/bolt.
     

    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    I had a similar issue with 4 blade Muzzy heads. At 30 yards they were almost a foot off. Switched to,mechanical rages and so far they fly true.
     

    lax

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,131
    Baldwin
    Sounds like it needs to be paper tuned. Which bolts are you using. I have a ki machine and use ki pro bolts made by black eagle.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I went out and shot a old 2 bladed bear broadhead I had. It shot just a bit low and that might have been me. I isn't made for Xbow speed and force and bent entering the dirt. I tried it again at 20yards and it was off, but not as much as the three bladed ones even though it was bent.

    I am trying to read up on tuning with xbows. Manf. recommends 380grain or heavier and i am 425. Another site recommends aligning the three blades with the fletching, but I am not sure this will change much. My FOC is only abut 11 and they recommended 5" minimum vanes to stabilize a short arrow. CE only uses 4" vanes. I could strip one and add 5" real feathers.

    I am using carbon express pile drivers as stated in the first post. I was considering using Trocar HBX, but honestly I don't know much about tuning carbon arrows. I can carve and straighten arrows out of shoots and scrape to spine for a self bow, but don't know what to do to fix carbons. This thing drives me nuts. The Xbow is great with points but with broadheads I have more confidence under 20 yards with my self bow.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    To find the spine of a carbon shaft:

    Using rubber stoppers, plug each end of a shaft(air tight so they'll float), and lay into a tub of water. After a couple minutes, the heavy(spine) will rotate to the bottom while the weakest section will be at the top. Carefully mark each shaft at the top(weakest section). This will allow you the "spine" each arrow identically. After that, tuning is simply a matter of rotating the arrow(s) to find out where the spine needs to be for the optimum flight. Generally, the spines should all be the same position on the nock. This takes some of the guesswork out of finding the sweet spot in each arrow by randomly rotating and shooting.

    Rubber stoppers of same weight and shape are the key;

    http://www.widgetco.com/epdm-rubber...4nu5cGfbtkI-vYT4FT4ykU5_a_xlVamhoC2ioQAvD_BwE
     

    possumman

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 13, 2011
    3,201
    Pikesville Md
    Dont be afraid of mechanical heads -people wound deer and loose them with standard 3 blade heads too. I have used a variety mechanicals from 2 different crossbows and they work great and shoot like field points-you can trust them to kill deer- they blow thru and leave large exit wounds-you dont have to pay $20 each for them either--dont drive youself crazy trying to stop wind planing
     

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,169
    Mt Airy
    I am trying to read up on tuning with xbows. Manf. recommends 380grain or heavier and i am 425. Another site recommends aligning the three blades with the fletching, but I am not sure this will change much. My FOC is only abut 11 and they recommended 5" minimum vanes to stabilize a short arrow. CE only uses 4" vanes. I could strip one and add 5" real feathers.

    I always line mine up. It definitely helps. Try that first, and then go to mechanicals if it doesn't shoot straight. Lots of x-bows shoot mechanicals because they shoot so fast, the blades on fixed heads catch too much air. I prefer rear-deploying mechanicals
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I have the Trocar HBX on order and should be here later in the week. I still ahve two mulch bags I bought last year to shoot broadhead through. Might even try beer boxes and cardboard behind that.

    I really like the G5 montech by design, reliability and reuse, but I want to get a mechanical and get on track and then try and figure that crap out. Then I'll probably get these deer figured out and star back to hunting with my selfbow. ;)
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    Got the HBX heads. 20 yards was great but an inch low. Thought it might be me. Pictures from my phone are sideways
     

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    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    Then at 30 yards. I shot using my 35 dot and it’s dropping even faster. This would be my 40 or longer dot on the scope. I doubt I am taking any long shots with these.

    They are staying straight but dropping faster like it’s slowing the bolt down faster
     

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    wilcam47

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 4, 2008
    25,976
    Changed zip code
    If Im reading it correct, you will have a little difference between the target and regular broadheads. You just have to adjust for the broadheads you are using. Some like muzzy have target broadheads in the pack, Not sure about the other brands. The only ones Ive found that are the same is the rage and they have a practice tip also. Thats been my experience. also make sure you have a solid support when sighting in.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    Killer instinct 350 is the bow.

    The bolt is dropping like I added extra high set fletching as a drag.

    Anyone that knows is welcome to stop by and show me what’s wrong. I’ll supply the beer, even add deer or turkey brats to that.

    I ordered the Chinese Rage knock off's but they are on the "slow boat" and estimated delivery 7/23 - 8/3.

    [EDIT] I asked on a crossbow forum under tuning and a gy responded having the same issues and to check FOC which I was around 10% and they think 15% is better. He said he went to 175 grain slick tricks and he stopped having trouble. I ordered a Gold Tip FACT wrench and 20 grain weights to get Tuesday and play with some one for FOC and see if that helps or not.
     
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    wilcam47

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 4, 2008
    25,976
    Changed zip code
    Killer instinct 350 is the bow.

    The bolt is dropping like I added extra high set fletching as a drag.

    Anyone that knows is welcome to stop by and show me what’s wrong. I’ll supply the beer, even add deer or turkey brats to that.

    I ordered the Chinese Rage knock off's but they are on the "slow boat" and estimated delivery 7/23 - 8/3.

    [EDIT] I asked on a crossbow forum under tuning and a gy responded having the same issues and to check FOC which I was around 10% and they think 15% is better. He said he went to 175 grain slick tricks and he stopped having trouble. I ordered a Gold Tip FACT wrench and 20 grain weights to get Tuesday and play with some one for FOC and see if that helps or not.
    hope that works for your crossbow. Let us know how it goes.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    Gold tip weight stabilized the Trocar but it started dropping heavily when 60 grains did stabilize it.

    HBx still dropping

    G5 Montec never really stabilized even with 100 grains added.

    I am waiting on my Chinese rages to show up within two weeks. I may shave the fletching off one bolt and put 5" tall real feathers on it and see if slowing the back help stabilize it. It makes traditional arrows recover quicker.

    I'm just playing in the dark right now. Not really sure what to do.
     

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