Spotting Scopes for 500 Yard Shooting - Longer Range Shooters Please Chime In

A while back I asked about spotting scopes and was somewhat taken back when a MDS member suggested a $900 Vortex Viper scope as a minimal scope. Well - I would like to get a spotting scope that would be acceptable for say 500 yards. No I don't shoot 500 yards now - but I don't want to get a scope and then 3 years from now wish I had got a better scope. I want to buy a spotting scope that I will not out grow. And I got some bonus money this year which I did not expect.

That being said - it seems from my research that you need to spend something like $1500 for a scope that will discern bullet holes at 500 yards (e.g., Vortex Optics Razor HD 20-60x85). I suspect that MDS member was correct. Just reading some product reviews and comments. Those of you who really do shoot long range -what do you use and what are your thoughts? Any info greatly appreciated.

At least $1K anyway, if you go the Pentax route and buy a nice eyepiece separately. Avoid most zoom eyepieces. Good fixed-magnification eyepieces usually have much better clarity, wider field of view, and longer eye relief. I treat good spotting scopes like a telescope and won't buy a spotting scope with a non-replaceable eyepiece. At 500 yards, with high magnification, mirage can get really bad no matter what spotting scope you use. Also factor in the cost of a good, fluid-head tripod.

500 yards is asking a lot unless you are shooting a large caliber. If the weather and light are perfect my vortex hd can do it. Add in the slightest mirage or the light not hitting it perfect and you can forget it.

If that's all you are going to use a spotting scope for I would invest in a remote camera system or steel targets.


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Pentax 80ED is one of the only spotting scopes that performs like a Zeiss or Leica costing 2-3 times as much. One reason it beat out the Leica as reference scope for several years on the major site that used to test scopes and binos for birdwatchers(BVD.com). For one thing it uses regular astronomical type eyepieces instead of proprietary thread on ones used by every other spotting scope maker. Actually the $400 Pentax XL zoom eyepiece was designed especially for that scope, even though it was part of their astronomical eyepiece line. And yes a fixed power eyepiece will have better resolution than a zoom also. If you really want to see a test go check out the spotting scope shootout on Accuratereloader.com. 6mm BR holes are not that easy to see at 500 yards even with the top Pentax, Zeiss, Leica, and Swarovski scopes.
While I really like the Pentax (and worked for the Md dealer at one time) the scope I use is one that several thousand yard shooters in Md tried out and bought all the ones we had then in stock (it is no longer imported from Russia). It was the LOMO 95 Astele, a Russian built Maksutov-Cassegrain telescope. Like the Pentax spotting scopes it uses regular astro eyepieces so you can buy whatever quality you can afford. They said it was the one scope they tested that could see .30 caliber holes at 1000 yards.
Even AccurateReloading.com says that if you have a spotter then an astro type telescope with a much larger objective will allow them to resolve even smaller holes at very long range. That is the crux of the matter. The finest 80mm spotter (Zeiss) can only see 6mm holes at 500 yards some of the time depending on the heat in the air and the fact that an 80mm objective has a theoretical limit on how small an object it can resolve. And why they prefered the Pentax 100ED over an 80mm scope. The Pentax 100 with a zoom was equal to the Zeiss 80 with a fixed eyepiece. So if you put a fixed eyepiece on the Pentax 100 it will out resolve the Zeiss. Simple physics actually. However the qualiity of that glass will determine if it can reach the theoretical limit.
I actually use Pentax XL fixed power eyepieces in my LOMO 95mm. The SOCOM team snipers on mountaintops in the Middle East shooting calibers of .338 to .50 generally used modified astro telescopes, either Questar 7s (the famous CIA model) or modified Schmidt-Cassegrains from Celestron or Meade. Company 7 in Laurel used to deal with them. The DOD actually sent some people to talk to us (Hands On Optics) because the Questar 7 was out of production for awhile. We gave them some parameters they needed to consider but we did not supply them any scopes. We did configure some for the people inspecting the power lines above the Alaska Pipeline (a couple of hundred feet in the air) who wanted to be able to tell a broken insulator from a bunch of birdpoop. They used some modified Celestron 235mm SCTs we made up for them.

Interesting and informative background material.

photoracer is correct. Astro telescopes are often seen at paper matches. I am not an authority on such and do not pretend to be. My experience at distances in excess of 600yd is mainly on steel targets at sniper-type matches. At these matches, optical quaility is very important but magnification of spotting scopes tends to be in the "normal" range (60X and less). More critical to our needs is the speed and accuracy of correction calls. This generally requires a reticle in the scope (preferably first focal plane and in the same calibration as the shooter's riflescope, i.e. mils or moa). You must tailor your equipment to your intended use. If you wish to see a 6mm or 30cal hole at 500+yd, I would suggest looking into astronomical equipment. If you are more concerned with shooting steel I would suggest the Leupold Mark4 with the reticle of your choice or, if you wish, the new Nightforce spotter.

I'm a High Power shooter (up to 600 yards) and can tell you that trying to spot bullet holes (especially hits in the black) can be difficult even at 200 yards. As mentioned above, mirage can effect what you can see. Also lighting conditions make a difference, is the target backlit or in direct sun.

In High Power, scopes are used to read the mirage (estimate wind and optical target "shift") and to read the scoring disks and spotting markers placed by the pit crew.

Our gold standard has been the Kowa TSN-82SV plus 25X LER (long eye relief) eye piece and its predecessor the TSN-821M with 27X LER eye piece. The LER eye piece makes it easier to see with glasses and from position (prone sitting). If you shop around, the Kowa with eye piece is in your price range.

I think today or tomorrow is the last day for Kowa scope and stand specials at Creedmoor Sports.

I have a kowa and the ler 25x eye piece....works great for mid range f class and seeing the mirage.

Thanks for all the great info - I am taking all this in.

I would consider Kowa as the bargain brand that is actually very good not hype. They have been around for a good while. Nikon has a new spotter in the $400 range at 82mm that might be acceptable although I have never looked thru one.

Bolts Rock said:

I think today or tomorrow is the last day for Kowa scope and stand specials at Creedmoor Sports.

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http://www.creedmoorsports.com/shop/Creedmoor_Kowa_Holiday_Scope_Package.html

Seems to me that the Kowa TSN-82SV with a fixed 25X LER eye piece, and haze filter and case is the way to go for starters. I could get a more powerful eye piece later if need be. I am thinking I would rather have a pole stand than a tripod. Thanks again for all the input.

photoracer said:

While I really like the Pentax (and worked for the Md dealer at one time) the scope I use is one that several thousand yard shooters in Md tried out and bought all the ones we had then in stock (it is no longer imported from Russia). It was the LOMO 95 Astele, a Russian built Maksutov-Cassegrain telescope. Like the Pentax spotting scopes it uses regular astro eyepieces so you can buy whatever quality you can afford. They said it was the one scope they tested that could see .30 caliber holes at 1000 yards.

Click to expand...

I've used a LOMO Astele 70 at the range. Yes, they work well. Downside is that they are very fragile. One knock is enough to shatter the lenses. Nowadays I use a Pentax 80ED-A with XW eyepieces.