Shooting .308 through a .311 Bore 1909 Argentine

TargetGrade · Feb 19, 2018

More specifically I'm looking at a very well done 1909 Argentine conversion that the chamber was reamed out to fit a 30-06. .003 isn't much at all but some will no doubt say it's loose. I shoot 100 - 200 yards at the range, some of you no doubt own some of these weapons question is..... how do they like the 06 round since the barrel was originally made for a 7.65 and not a 7.62? Bore is excellent so I think it will "grab" the slightly smaller bullet just fine. Not looking for your guess or in theory, looking for actual experience.

Beautiful gun, reblued with a really nice aftermarket walnut w/low end scope.

Doco Overboard · Feb 19, 2018

If you think it will work, buy it and let us know what your experience is so we can all learn.

TargetGrade · Feb 19, 2018

Doco Overboard said:
If you think it will work, buy it and let us know what your experience is so we can all learn.

I figure someone already has one, these were a dime a dozen in the 60's. The Argent Gov't did it so they could shoot 06 out of them. At that time they were good buds with the US.

This one is just really appealing, I need another 06 bolt like a hole in the head but since it's a mauser, nice walnut and a 06 to me that's the 63 split window of rifles.

K-43 · Feb 19, 2018

You could do a chamber cast and measure the neck and throat. If they're for .311 or .312 bullets, just use a .311 or .312 neck expander in a 30-06 sizing die.
If it is 30-06 dimensions, some of our local gunsmiths can cut a new neck and throat for it easily enough.
There are good .311, .312, and .313 bullets available to hunt or target shoot.

TargetGrade · Feb 19, 2018

K-43 said:
You could do a chamber cast and measure the neck and throat. If they're for .311 or .312 bullets, just use a .311 or .312 neck expander in a 30-06 sizing die.
If it is 30-06 dimensions, some of our local gunsmiths can cut a new neck and throat for it easily enough.
There are good .311, .312, and .313 bullets available to hunt or target shoot.

That's a good idea but I have a lot of both commercial and military 06 same with 308 bullets to roll my own so I like standardization.

Threeband · Feb 19, 2018

Sounds like your only hope is to tie yourself to the mast while the rest of us stuff beeswax in our ears and row like hell...

Doco Overboard · Feb 19, 2018

Ive shot 308 bullets in 7.7 Japs but they have met-ford style rifling with a higher cross sectional area and Ive loaded for a no4 with 308 bullets. No key holing or abnormalities at 200yds but they were with relatively decent barrels.
If its nice, and done right worse case is you may have to shoot cast bullets that are bore riding.
If its done really well, with double set triggers 3 position safety ,bolt damascening, barrel band and express sights and a good deal and most importantly you like it, well you know what Mikey says.
The thing is, a 7.65 180 Norma load can nearly approximate 308 ballistics so I wouldn't do such a thing and if its a shooter already you have to ask yourself why is someone getting rid of it if that's the case.
OR there was a slight chamber abnormality and some one just opened it up so a good rifle didn't go to waste and its good to go once the right load recipe has been worked up. Or, its just good to go.
So when you say Argentine 1909 I understand a m98 standard 8 3/4 length large ring manufactured for Argentina and not a 7.65 m91 Argentine action which should be a non-start.
The last thing is, unless the barrel has been set back one thread, a 7.65 cartridge is larger than an o6 at the head so something funny could be going on in the butt end of the chamber. Like a slightly bulged case after firing and that's where the real concern should lie.
just my 2 cents.

John from MD · Feb 19, 2018

My Argentines shot best with a Lyman 314299 200gn bullet. They also shot well with pulled Brit .303 175gn bullets. They did not impress me with any .308 jacketed bullet.

TargetGrade · Feb 19, 2018

Threeband said:
Sounds like your only hope is to tie yourself to the mast while the rest of us stuff beeswax in our ears and row like hell...

Lorelei will be the death of me yet but I cannot resist no matter the wax, this one is almost too beautiful to pass up. :sad20:

K-43 · Feb 20, 2018

Doco Overboard said:
...The last thing is, unless the barrel has been set back one thread, a 7.65 cartridge is larger than an o6 at the head so something funny could be going on in the butt end of the chamber. Like a slightly bulged case after firing and that's where the real concern should lie.
just my 2 cents.

It is insignificant. The difference in the drawings is only 0.002 at the head. This isn't going to make any safety issue. The 308 Winchester is 0.005 larger than the 30-06. You can size down 30-06 to make either one. Making 7.63x53 from 30-06 brass has been a proven and safe practice since at least WWII ended.

The difference in rim diameter is 0.003", again, not a problem in safety nor function.

Maybe you're thinking of the 7.5x55 Swiss, which is much larger.

Biggfoot44 · Feb 20, 2018

Parallel situation with using .308dia bullets in .303 , and 7.62x39 and x54 .

Some specific barrels and specific bullets give sufficently average accuracy , sometimes don't . You can't know until you try in Your rifle .

If you handload using .311-.313 dia bullets , you will reach full potential. Your choice of ranking your preferences between having a common loads for several '06s vs optimizing for specific rifle .

Doco Overboard · Feb 20, 2018

K-43 said:
It is insignificant. The difference in the drawings is only 0.002 at the head. This isn't going to make any safety issue. The 308 Winchester is 0.005 larger than the 30-06. You can size down 30-06 to make either one. Making 7.63x53 from 30-06 brass has been a proven and safe practice since at least WWII ended.

The difference in rim diameter is 0.003", again, not a problem in safety nor function.

Maybe you're thinking of the 7.5x55 Swiss, which is much larger.

Not so much concerned with safety using good brass. Thinking about a smaller chamber reamer following a larger chamber and then remaining straight with the bore. Espescially if the work was done by hand. That's why I mentioned setting the barrel back one thread.
My basis is that one less variable would be eliminated for trouble shooting.
Is a bore riding bullet more accurate than one with a larger diameter started at an angle into the lead? Only a chamber cast and actual shooting would tell I'm thinking.

John from MD · Feb 20, 2018

Chamber casting is easy with Cerrosafe. That will give you all the info you need to make a determination on what bullet to use.

K-43 · Feb 20, 2018

Doco Overboard said:
Not so much concerned with safety using good brass. Thinking about a smaller chamber reamer following a larger chamber and then remaining straight with the bore. Espescially if the work was done by hand. That's why I mentioned setting the barrel back one thread.
My basis is that one less variable would be eliminated for trouble shooting.
Is a bore riding bullet more accurate than one with a larger diameter started at an angle into the lead? Only a chamber cast and actual shooting would tell I'm thinking.

Gotcha.

TargetGrade · Feb 20, 2018

I'm going to take another trip Thursday for a relook. I think it was the original 7.65 barrel converted and if so I'll pass.

Shooting .308 through a .311 Bore 1909 Argentine

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