Reduced Recoil Rifle Loads

Pinecone · Jan 15, 2017

Anyone play with reduced recoil rifle loads?

SLCFSA shoots some military rifle events (High power like, vintage sniper, and antique rifle) all at 100 yards. So why shoot a load that reaches out for 600+ yards?

I have some load advice for Garands from CMP Forums. It seems that standard powder charges, but with a Speer 125 gr TNT bullet, operates the action, but reduced recoil.

I am looking for loads for .30-40 Krag (antique rifle), .30-06 for 03/M1917, and 7.62x54r (vintage sniper).

Hodgdon has info on using reduced loads with H4895. Or using Trail Boss.

I have one load for the Krag, but it uses 2400, which seems to be not available these days. Any recommendations?

I figure I could load the .30-06 for the bolt rifles with the same Speer 125 grain, and using H4895 or Trail Boss. But does anyone have any that work for them?

I was thinking maybe working up some loads for the 7.62x54r using 123 grain AK bullets. Anybody try anything like this?

stu929 · Jan 15, 2017

We have a member here who is a master of this is 4759 I believe.

I have tinkered with unique before out of an 06 and everytime I pulled the trigger I couldnt help but laugh. It was pretty accurate too but I didnt put a lot of load development into it.

The Lyman book has low power loads in it. Unfortunately I lent my book to a friend but there def are some great powder puff loads out there.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

ironpony · Jan 15, 2017

No help here Pinecone but I am interested too, I believe it was you that mentioned doing just this, to me, before for 7mm RemMag. Possible LR class in my future.

robmints · Jan 15, 2017

I shoot reduced 223, 22 250, 8mm Mauser. 60% of Hodgdon listed max of h4895. Accuracy can be iffy. If you want acceptable competition accuracy you will need to work up. If it is listed as a load for h4895 you can load it at 60% of max. H4895 is very flexible and is not susceptible to ignition problems other non-listed loads may cause. Some people swear by pistol powders blue dot but I have no desire to be an experiment. Fluffy and flaky like trailboss or donuts like sr4759 have listed reduced loads but velocity can really be tough on accuracy.

Art3 · Jan 15, 2017

I'm tinkering around with H4895 behind 125 gr for .30-06. I used their formula at first (don't remember exactly what it came out to be offhand, but you can find it online), but at that calculated starting load, I did have some ignition issues. I bumped it up a grain or two (still well below the standard charge starting load), and it's been working so far. I haven't started working up a load yet; just been planing around. Recoil out of a Ruger American is great. I haven't tried any thing else, but I'm sure an '03 or 1917 would be quite tame.

Blacksmith101 · Jan 15, 2017

Try Hodgdon Youth Loads:
http://www.wwpowder.com/PDF/Youth Loads.pdf

Melnic · Jan 15, 2017

I've worked up (but not tested) the C.E. Harris loads mentioned in the link in the post here:
https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=4625466&postcount=3

Pinecone · Jan 16, 2017

Here is the direct link mentioned - https://www.gunandgame.com/threads/...-military-rifles-article-by-c-e-harris.77457/

I probably ought to pick up the Lyman Cast Bullet book.

BTW, Montana Bullet Works, hand casts a number of Lyman bullets. Some come in different alloys, but they are sized and lubed, and have gas checks installed if it is a gas check bullet. I am going to order some 200 grain round nose for the .30-40 Krag. Reports are, they cycle much more reliably with a round nose bullet, which was the standard military bullet at the time.

It looks like I may have to wait to find some 2400. The .30-40 Krag load I saw on CMP Forum is a 200 grain Lyman cast bullet with 17 grains of 2400. I like this, as it is really a bunny fart .44 Magnum load.

I did know about the H4895 reduced loads. I had not seen the Youth Loads data, thanks. They say start at 60% of MAX listed load, then work UP for accuracy. It seems the Youth Loads are a bit above the 60% of Max starting point.

I have a good bit of H4895, so figured I would try this. I am going to order some Speer 125 grain TNT bullets, as these seem to be the best choice for reduced power Garand loads.
Here is the link to the instructions (it is hard to find, as it seems they moved it and many links 404) - http://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

John from MD · Jan 16, 2017

Google Ed Harris reduced loads and you will get a book full. By in my days with the Cast Bullet Association, Ed did a bunch of research with reduced loads. Many of us competed over the course with them even though the bullet path looked like a parabola. :lol:

My best loads for bolt action milsurps were, 16gns of 2400, 15 gns of Unique, 13 gns of Red Dot. These work best with 150-200 grain bullets. We shot them in rifles using cartridges such as the 30-40 Krag, 30-06 Springfied, 7.65 Argentine, 6.5, 7x57 and 8x57 Mauser, and 30 and 32 WRA.

I worked up reduced loads for my Garand using H4831 and an ADJUSTABLE GAS PLUG. The slower powders had more gas volume to operate the action but less pressure. Don't do this without using the adjustable plug.

We strove for @ 1600 FPS with our reduced loads. I can't remember why. :rolleyes:

Pinecone said:
Anyone play with reduced recoil rifle loads?

SLCFSA shoots some military rifle events (High power like, vintage sniper, and antique rifle) all at 100 yards. So why shoot a load that reaches out for 600+ yards?

I have some load advice for Garands from CMP Forums. It seems that standard powder charges, but with a Speer 125 gr TNT bullet, operates the action, but reduced recoil.

I am looking for loads for .30-40 Krag (antique rifle), .30-06 for 03/M1917, and 7.62x54r (vintage sniper).

Hodgdon has info on using reduced loads with H4895. Or using Trail Boss.

I have one load for the Krag, but it uses 2400, which seems to be not available these days. Any recommendations?

I figure I could load the .30-06 for the bolt rifles with the same Speer 125 grain, and using H4895 or Trail Boss. But does anyone have any that work for them?

I was thinking maybe working up some loads for the 7.62x54r using 123 grain AK bullets. Anybody try anything like this?

Jmorrismetal · Jan 16, 2017

Not sure what kind of "event" you plan on shooting in but I have a set of rules for ammunition that I use in competition.

First is that it has to "run" 100%, function of the firearm is the #1 priority over all else.

Second is that it needs to have appropriate accuracy for the task at hand. It doesn't matter how much I like how it feels, if it won't do the job, it's no good.

I have loaded reduced rifle loads using pistol powders like trailboss, 11 grains in a 308 case with a cast 150 bullet has pretty much non existent recoil and is reasonably accurate, for varmint killing and casual plinking.

Biggfoot44 · Jan 16, 2017

Dig out your collection of loading manuals from the '50s and early '60s, and there will be a boat load of data for light to midrange rifle loads with pistol powders.

Manuals from late '60s to early '90s will have lots of loads using 4579 . Too bad it is discontinued.

5744 is fairly similar in application, but fewer published loads.

And in the current era, the use of 4895 is most heavily documented.

Pinecone · Jan 16, 2017

The use is for CMP type competition, but all shot at 100 yards. CMP High Power course for most rifles. Similar, but shot with antique rifles. And the sniper is 40 rounds (team of two, each fires 20 rounds and spots when not shooting), prone with sandbags.

Yes, the loads need to be accurate enough to hold the 10 ring. Even if I can't.

Thanks for the Ed Harris tip. A good set of his articles - http://curioandrelicfirearmsforum.yuku.com/topic/2704#.WH0V4PkrKUk

Red Dot IS available. And hopefully 2400 will become available again at some point.

Josh Smith · Jan 17, 2017

Hello,

I had a customer email me about 7.62x54r reduced loads. I generally shoot 150 grain bullets over 45 grains Varget. This is in some books, so I do not consider it a reduced load, but rather somewhat mild compared to the full-house loads in that chambering. I directed him to the Cast Boolits forum as they play with pistol powders over there.

I wonder about the accuracy of a 123 grain projectile from the Mosin-Nagant. I've not tried it, though I've meant to for some time. I'd think it would be spinning way too fast for the bullet length.

I guess this isn't a lot of help, but I've been going through reduced loads to see what I can try out before advising the customer further. I'll check back here, too, if I find anything in my manuals.

Regards,

Josh

Zman9398 · Jan 18, 2017

I know non of us never really have any reason for a .223 reduced load, but I loaded 18.2gr H4198 with a 55gr fmjbt last night and it felt like .22lr. I don't have a velocity on them and there is no load data for this powder in my hornady book, but It was a neat load to play with.

Melnic · Jan 18, 2017

Josh Smith said:
Hello,

I had a customer email me about 7.62x54r reduced loads. I generally shoot 150 grain bullets over 45 grains Varget. This is in some books, so I do not consider it a reduced load, but rather somewhat mild compared to the full-house loads in that chambering. I directed him to the Cast Boolits forum as they play with pistol powders over there.

I wonder about the accuracy of a 123 grain projectile from the Mosin-Nagant. I've not tried it, though I've meant to for some time. I'd think it would be spinning way too fast for the bullet length.

I guess this isn't a lot of help, but I've been going through reduced loads to see what I can try out before advising the customer further. I'll check back here, too, if I find anything in my manuals.

Regards,

Josh

I still have several hundreds of the 7.62x54r Czech training ammo which is hollow core and I think about 60grains or so. Up to 50 yards it is pretty close to surplus ammo. Out at 100, its worse.
It sounds just like the regular surplus but little to no recoil. Not much of it left and I don't think a full size mosin is that bad anyway. Maybe for kids though, when my #2 boy was 12 that is what he shot from the mosin.

10gr trailboss with 180g sierra SP bullet has been my subsonic I settled on for my fox hunt load.

John from MD · Jan 19, 2017

Melnic said:
I still have several hundreds of the 7.62x54r Czech training ammo which is hollow core and I think about 60grains or so. Up to 50 yards it is pretty close to surplus ammo. Out at 100, its worse.
It sounds just like the regular surplus but little to no recoil. Not much of it left and I don't think a full size mosin is that bad anyway. Maybe for kids though, when my #2 boy was 12 that is what he shot from the mosin.

10gr trailboss with 180g sierra SP bullet has been my subsonic I settled on for my fox hunt load.

If you pull the the bullet, you can use that powder for anything that uses Unique as it is the same burn rate. I must have bought a half a boxcar of this stuff in the early eighties for something like $10 a can. It was a lot of bullet pulling though. :rolleyes:

Melnic · Jan 19, 2017

how did you pull them? I tried a kinetic puller and an RCBS 30 cal bullet puller die which just kept slipping. They have a serious crimp on them. I could not get them to budge.
I like them the way they are but wanted to just take a look.

Pinecone · Jan 19, 2017

Crimped or sealed?

If sealed, run them into a seating die set to push the bullet back a tiny bit to break the seal.

Then they pull easier.

Melnic · Jan 19, 2017

http://www.ammochannel.com/7-62x54r-czech-46-gr-training-ammo/

John from MD · Jan 19, 2017

Push them back in the case to break the seal and then they will pop out easy with the kinetic puller. A side effect is an even bigger strong arm. :lol2:

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