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    Simon Yu

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 12, 2007
    1,357
    Rockville
    Maybe you guys could be more specific like calling them Feinstien liberals, or Peloski liberals, or Kennedy liberals, or Guilianni liberals or something.

    Interesting that you should mention that. I think this crowd is at least somewhat used to hearing terms like libertarian Republican, religious right, and neoconservative to label people who affiliate themselves with conservatives without being the more traditional type one pictures (though by now, I think the religious right may be pretty ingrained). Not sure I've ever heard similar philosophical breakdowns of liberals though outside of classical liberalism to describe what the term used to mean (which bears more resemblance to libertarianism than what the term means now) before modern political definitions.

    In any case, I think I've always just called them gun grabbers or anti-gunners. I tend to prefer to get into fights and debates on a case by case basis :D
     

    BusDriver

    Livin the hillbilly dream
    Feb 28, 2007
    980
    The Hill Country
    It does matter who one votes for . Just look at the mess MD gun owners are in now . So how can you be and vote for liberal politicians and expect them to vote your way on gun issues ? Then there is Bloomberg and Gulliani :eek:
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    It does matter who one votes for . Just look at the mess MD gun owners are in now . So how can you be and vote for liberal politicians and expect them to vote your way on gun issues ? Then there is Bloomberg and Gulliani :eek:
    True. This is why I did not vote for one Democrat the last election. I voted Libertarian for US Senator, Ehrlich for Gov. (he is a moderate if I've ever seen one), Republican for Attorney General (I met Ganzler and didn't trust him....looks like my gut feeling was right) and I think all the others were Libertarian except where they didn't run for an office. I wanted to send my party a message of no more gun grabbing or else they lose votes.
     

    TheTruth

    Active Member
    Sep 19, 2006
    254
    Novus-

    I guess that most of us are just very, very suspect about the Maryland Democratic liberal agenda. And we probably should be given history as BusDriver correctly points out. The liberal Maryland polices just aren't compatible with 2nd amendment issues. While I think it is very good that people like you and PGP exist, it is still a minority in the party. Which is a shame because most of the democrats that are pro second amendment will never get in power. Most of the good old southern democrats are located on the shore, the mountains or in Cecil or Hartford county. The radical agenda in PG, Baltimore City and Montgomery county is the issue. Until that cycle breaks, the party moderates or some new blood from outside the city and two counties comes in, I think you are really going to fight an uphill battle. But, my hat is off to you my friend - keep trying.

    However, lets not forget about good people like Norm Stone, Dan Riley and Steve DeBoy. All of these are moderate democrats who are listening to us, and deserve our support.
     

    DD214

    Founder
    Apr 26, 2005
    14,080
    St Mary's County
    Don, did you read my first post?

    I said I was not offended and I was just concerned the excessive liberal knocking might scare off new progun liberals is all.
    I also said that you guys should never stop being critical of libs and dems because I recognise our liberal politicians are the problem.
    I also said you are basically the one to point this out to me and changed my perspective towards my own party on the gun issue.
    I don't need to suck it up when you guys say stuff about liberals because you cons actually amuse me when y'all say some of your stuff about us when it is not relating to gun issues. :D

    I'm not asking for you guys to censor yourselfs or to sanitise your posts. I guess all I am asking for is to be a little more aware of what you say about liberals in general on the forums like this one or National issues when trying to organize for hearings and such.
    Maybe you guys could be more specific like calling them Feinstien liberals, or Peloski liberals, or Kennedy liberals, or Guilianni liberals or something.

    And by the way, I can understand why you had your manhood questioned while in the military. That is what you get when you have those little umbrellas in your drinks :lol2:


    By the way, I agree I have never seen a flame war here either and I would be surprised if I ever did. :party29:

    I guess I stayed up too late drinking beer and playing violent video games. My brain hasn't made it out of first gear today.

    I see what you are saying and I will personally try to avoid pointless jabs at anyone. If the complaint is valid, then I'll let it fly. Of course sometimes the complaints will be leveled at those in my own party. God knows they aren't always right, and seem to have lost their way as of late.

    Maybe I just need one of those umbrella drinks so that I can get in touch with my sensitive, feminine side. Enough of those and I'll end up getting a bumpersticker that reads "I :heart: Liberals".
     

    spitzer

    Member
    Mar 11, 2007
    34
    St.Mary's County, MD
    Can a Liberal Be Pursuaded?

    Novus,

    Are you one of those liberals that got mugged?:) I sure hope not. I am privileged to be part of a small group of retired senior federal managers that debate political issues nearly everyday. Two of us take turns holding forth from the Attila the Hun Chair. Some of the liberals are hunters and have only a clue that their rights are threatened. Like many in the UK, they are convinced that their hunting guns will never be taken away. How do you recommend getting through to them? Facts don't seem to be of interest to them.:rolleyes: I have seen some of the recommendations made by Coulter, but they are not calculated to be pursuasive.
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    Novus,

    Are you one of those liberals that got mugged?:)

    I have done some things in the past or have been around otheres who have that got me into trouble before where guns and/or violence was involved, but that is not why I have the attitude I do. I had the basics of my gun rights view long before any of that happened and with those incidents I was basically getting what I deserved anyway and the events did not change my gun rights view one way or the other.
    Also, I doubt I would be carrying much even if I got a permit (in MD at least) unless I had family to protect, but if I had a wife I would most definitly want her to carry one.
    My view on conceal carry is one of protecting the innocent and enabling them to protect themselves moreso than it is about me.

    I sure hope not. I am privileged to be part of a small group of retired senior federal managers that debate political issues nearly everyday. Two of us take turns holding forth from the Attila the Hun Chair. Some of the liberals are hunters and have only a clue that their rights are threatened. Like many in the UK, they are convinced that their hunting guns will never be taken away. How do you recommend getting through to them? Facts don't seem to be of interest to them.:rolleyes:
    What works best for me when I convince some other liberals or at least some of my position? Well, maybe I have succeeded in some cases simply because I am a liberal and they did not think I was just following the conservative agenda (that includes gun rights) like a mindless lemming. That goes a looooong way to getting them to not be defensinve and to open their minds more.
    Also using the liberal viewpoint helps on occasion. Now I know that sometimes the NRA or Jon Lott uses the minorities living in poor communities as an arguing point for people who have the most need for protection, but it sounds sooooooo much better when it is coupled with someone who also thinks something should be done by the state to help the poor community as a whole to help reduce that violent crime in the long run.....just remember, "social programs" and "tax the rich" can be mentioned. :D
    I of course believe the liberal ideals and methodology on many social issues so I have no problem finding a common ground with them using such arguments. Once we have found common ground and the debate is not confrontational, then they become more receptive to the facts and figures that dispell the common gun control myths (e.g. number of kids under 13 dying accidentally a year and then compare that number to the number accidentally dying riding bikes).

    So the best thinkg I can suggest is to find something you can agree on, and then work from there. Have to warn you though, and this is true for conservatives too, once one of their myths they believed as true fact for many years is disproven with a real fact, then they become defensive and suspect. One way I address this is I let it go and then the next day I bring in a cited source that I printed out on my computer (and a cited source should not come from a .org sight and should come from a .gov sight as much as possible to add credibility and authority to the cited numbers).
     

    Decoy

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 2, 2007
    4,928
    Dystopia
    I have a request for you guys that I believe is in the best interest of our cause.
    Please tone down the liberal bashing comments a little because there are a few of us libs here and since Maryland has a number of moderate liberal gun owners and some far left liberal gun owners that care about our gun rights read this board, it would be prudent not to chase them away with the bashing or derogatory comments.

    Now I know from reading this board and DD214's research that democrats in congress vote for anti gun legislation in an overwhelmingly majority, and the opposite is true with the Republican congresspersons (see, I'm a liberal and so I used the PC term for Congressperson ;) ), and the Maryland democrats have a similar theme. But if that is to change then us progun liberals (some say progressives) and democrats will have to change that ourselves from the inside of our party. Chasing the new ones of us away from this board with liberal bashing is counter to our efforts.

    Now me, I don't care too much when I see y'all righties bash us libs and I think it humourous at times because you conservatives just have no clue about most social causes (I believe that is called conservative bashing ;) ), but I cringe whenever I realize a lurking progun liberal is probably reading it too and decides not to join a site where he/she thinks he will be dumped on or bashed for his non-gun politics.

    So welcome us libs with open arms and tone down the rhetoric if you could. I am not saying to stop being critical of us dems and libs and by all means don't stop because if it were not for some of you guys taking me to task on my own party and if it were not for DD214 providing a dem/repub Congresspersons of pro/anti gun voting records, I would never have an idea of just how bad my party is on gun rights right now.

    Ok, rant over.

    To answer your OG post,

    I agree, which is why I donate to Pro gun Dems but at the same time please don't cruse the forums waiting to pounce on anything you view as conservative. You have a tendency to do that sometimes and it forces people to become immediately defensive. I consider myself an Independent and you have jumped on me a few times. I can't speak for anyone else but I hope everyone feels welcome and continues to post here. I just wish some people on this board were a bit more constructive.
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    To answer your OG post,

    I agree, which is why I donate to Pro gun Dems but at the same time please don't cruse the forums waiting to pounce on anything you view as conservative. You have a tendency to do that sometimes and it forces people to become immediately defensive. I consider myself an Independent and you have jumped on me a few times. I can't speak for anyone else but I hope everyone feels welcome and continues to post here. I just wish some people on this board were a bit more constructive.

    You see I don't pounce on everything I view as conservative. Much more often than not I have not responded to conservative view threads and posts.
    Sure I do respond with vigor to some issues, but I was trying to at least let liberal lurkers and or liberal members know that not everyone here is conservative and there is a place for progun liberal dems on this board.
    It looks as if my efforts have failed though because the few liberal members I had seen here are either long gone or recently gone. Like Sebastian for instance, where has he been? He was invaluable to this board and he is now gone.

    Now I never minded getting knocked for being a liberal because good natured ribbing is fine, but when things start to become simple bashing, uncivil, bitter or even personal, then it is no longer good natured anything.
    I have foregone responding to some conservative issue threads so as to not cause undue discourse among us and I have also stopped responding after I started to some for the same reason. I have gotten the impression that more than a few posters here have done the same to mine or other's liberal posts too. I have thought that some conservative posters held back a response so as to keep the peace and that is why I sometimes do the same. I am not perfect and sometimes I go too far, but I like to think I at least try to back off in the name of the overall good of the MD RKBA cause if I do.

    We can agree to disagree and debate is good for all involved, but repeated irrational rants by either side is not constructive.
     

    Spot77

    Ultimate Member
    May 8, 2005
    11,591
    Anne Arundel County
    We can agree to disagree and debate is good for all involved, but repeated irrational rants by either side is not constructive.

    Would it better serve the interest of the forum to prohibit off topic threads such as those pertaining to other social and political issues?

    I think in the big picture, no. I think we've all become somewhat closer by discussing SOME of our other interests and political beliefs.

    For instance Novus, you and I certainly are galaxies apart in political theory, but we still mangaged to slurp down quite a few beers together.

    But your point is well made about trying to bring more people into the fold. Unfortunately, the majority of vocal gun rights supporters are conservative on most issues and people who believe in the value of liberalism are always going to be a tiny minority here and on other similar forums.

    You just have to pick your battles I guess. I certainly wouldn't waste my time going to D.U. and trying to engage them with one of my extremist right wing opinions. But I might talk with them about something that I do have in common with D.U.'ers (ok...so there's very few things I have in common with them) and that would be the extent of what I used THEIR house for.

    And you're right - we should all try to be more polite to each other.
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    Would it better serve the interest of the forum to prohibit off topic threads such as those pertaining to other social and political issues?

    I think in the big picture, no. I think we've all become somewhat closer by discussing SOME of our other interests and political beliefs.

    For instance Novus, you and I certainly are galaxies apart in political theory, but we still mangaged to slurp down quite a few beers together.

    But your point is well made about trying to bring more people into the fold. Unfortunately, the majority of vocal gun rights supporters are conservative on most issues and people who believe in the value of liberalism are always going to be a tiny minority here and on other similar forums.

    You just have to pick your battles I guess. I certainly wouldn't waste my time going to D.U. and trying to engage them with one of my extremist right wing opinions. But I might talk with them about something that I do have in common with D.U.'ers (ok...so there's very few things I have in common with them) and that would be the extent of what I used THEIR house for.

    And you're right - we should all try to be more polite to each other.

    This is mostly conservative board, I accept that, but it is the MDShooters' board, not the Conservative MDShooters' board. As I see it as long as someone is a MDer, this is OUR house (belonging to Don) to share.
    Sure, most gun owners are typically conservative, but this is MD and since we have plenty of gun owners state wide, but a majority liberal or moderate dem population, it is quite possible there are just as many lib or moderate dem gun owners in this state as conservative. It is quite possible this board could someday years down the road become majority democrat. As long as we keep to the main issue of supporting the RKBA, I bet no one would notice the change over.

    Now you know I like the recent sterile no-politics attitude they take over on The High Road board, but this is not The High Road and I like that we do not have the same policy here.....but the only reason I liked the no-politics on THR and the reason I liked the free discussion here is because one was civil and mostly respectful of others, and the other was not.
     

    Deacon51

    Active Member
    Feb 28, 2007
    954
    Baltimore City
    Free advice that's worth a little less than you a going to pay for it.

    Don't worry about it.
    I'm pretty liberal on social issues.
    When someone post something about gays or illegals, I generally don’t bother reading it.
    And FYI, I will send my money and my vote to a pro gun dem over a gun control republican every day of the week.
     

    DorGunR

    R.I.P.
    Mar 7, 2007
    1,259
    Severn
    Liberals have given us Martin O'Malley, Montgomery county, PG county and the idiot mayor of Baltimore ..........I'd better stop........I can fell my BP starting to climb and I'm only supposed to take one BP pill a day.:mad54:
     

    Spot77

    Ultimate Member
    May 8, 2005
    11,591
    Anne Arundel County
    Ok, everybody's point has been well made I think.

    Even though Novus continues with this blasphemy:

    It is quite possible this board could someday years down the road become majority democrat. As long as we keep to the main issue of supporting the RKBA, I bet no one would notice the change over


    :lol2:

    I'm just kidding you.

    I'll watch non RKBA threads a little closer and shut them down if the need arises.

    BTW, if anybody really gets offended at something, please try to work it out via pm's with the offender first, while using the "report a post" function so that the Mods here can eyeball it too.

    If you're not the confrontational type, skip the pm's and just use the "report a post" function and nobody will know it was you.


    "We're a happy family, we're a happy family, we're a happy family........." :innocent0
     

    Deacon51

    Active Member
    Feb 28, 2007
    954
    Baltimore City
    The trouble with a two party system
    Liberals love sex ed because it teaches kids to be safe around their
    sex organs. Conservatives love gun education because it teaches kids
    to be safe around guns. However, both believe that the other’s
    education goals lead to dangers too terrible to contemplate.

    (Riped that off from PGP)
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,879
    I've tried to keep things steered in a direction that leads to a fairly academic tone of discussion and to keep the personal attacks, insults or what have you toned down. I know that I'm not alwats successful but i try my darndest.

    We're all adults here (well, except for Spot77 ;)) and I spend my days refereeing disagreements between adolescents. I guess I expect a higher level of discourse here.

    I always try to step in and give you guys a heads up when, in my opinion we have pulled the discussion away from what is considered an appropriate tone and to reign it back in. However, I'm not going to micromanage individual posts and I (we) expect you guys to all be mindful of your personal responsibilties to that end.

    Carry on....:thumbsup:
     
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