Newly updated MSP banned list question

Shooter_Drew · Mar 9, 2018

Looks like MSP updated the banned list for rifles and I have a hypothetical question about someone who owned a rifle PRIOR to the updated list. Anyone know if this rifle that is now listed as "a copy of an enumerated rifle" is still legal to own?

gwchem · Mar 9, 2018

What's not clear to me from your question is when did it become "owned"

If prior to 10/1/13 it was most likely either imported into the state legally or already sold as a regulated transfer and therefore legal.

If after 10/1/13, and it truly is a "banned" rifle, than no, it is illegal to own in this state.

Edit to say the date on the list is irrelevant. Only the date of the law. I want to be very clear on that point.

Shooter_Drew · Mar 9, 2018

From what I was told It was purchased from a local GS on 2/14/18 it's now showing on the MSP banned list with a "date of status" of 2/28/18

This is a person who I work with and is new to guns, he purchased it legally and just wants to know if he can own it. I think he is just nervous and has me checking things out because he doesn't knkw how to word his concerns.

gwchem · Mar 9, 2018

Well, that doesn't clear it up, sorry.

Is the gun banned because of certain features but the model he bought slightly changed? Can you post the gun model?

gwchem · Mar 9, 2018

Most MD shops do a pretty good job following the law, so worst case is he might have to sell it back. He did everything right on his end.

Shooter_Drew · Mar 9, 2018

All I have is a screen shot that he sent me from the MSP website. He said he could probably call the MSP firearms devision and ask but doesn't want anything to come back on him, I told him they already know what he owns.

He said it's just a basic Rugar AR-556 but this particular model # is listed as banned.

I'm sorry for being vague I'm just going by what we've talked about and trying to relay it to you guys.

MD sucks and makes this so unfun at times. I feel bad for him because he just got this and was so happy, now he's stressing about this.

gwchem · Mar 9, 2018

There's a state compliant model of that rifle. I'd be surprised if he really has the wrong one. If he does, its an easy return and trade for the correct model, #8511.

I repeat, he's done nothing wrong in the eyes of msp that can't be easily fixed. This should be no big deal.

NateIU10 · Mar 9, 2018

Shooter_Drew said:
All I have is a screen shot that he sent me from the MSP website. He said he could probably call the MSP firearms devision and ask but doesn't want anything to come back on him, I told him they already know what he owns.

He said it's just a basic Rugar AR-556 but this particular model # is listed as banned.

I'm sorry for being vague I'm just going by what we've talked about and trying to relay it to you guys.

MD sucks and makes this so unfun at times. I feel bad for him because he just got this and was so happy, now he's stressing about this.

I am going to assume you are talking about this one:

Ruger
Ruger AR-556 MPR #8514
Banned Copy of an enumerated weapon 2/28/2018

There was one dealer on here that was getting factory guns in and swapping barrels. I will not weigh in on the legality of that, but your friend should contact the dealer that sold it to him and ask. If it is the one place I know of, they were not very clear in their advertisements that they were swapping barrels or that customers were purchasing firearms that were modified by the retailer after they left the factory.

danb · Mar 9, 2018

There are several different versions of the Ruger 556. The heavy barrel models are not banned. THey look very similar to the banned versions.

It is extremely unlikely FFL sold/transferred the wrong model. I would not sweat it. If he's new to guns, he probably is just new to the vague stupidity that is MD gun law.

jtb81100 · Mar 9, 2018

I'd contact the gunshop and let them contact msp for clarification if needed

Shooter_Drew · Mar 9, 2018

The screen shot I have from him does show the model #8514 I've seen pictures of this online and I'm sure it's the one he has as I helped him sight it in.

He says he fell in love with that gun and said he doesn't want any other AR so unless there is a risk of legal issues I'm sure he's going to not want to return it or if he's even able to.

If this is a banned rifle (as of 2/28/18) I'm not sure, but maybe it was "OK" to purchase and just can't be purchased in this state after 2/28?

I did see the thread you are referring to and I know he didn't buy it from them. But what I don't understand is the part where it was being modified?

danb · Mar 9, 2018

The barrel on the Ruger 556 is the evil feature. Its fairly easy to swap it for the MD compliant "Heavy" version. Why an FFL would do that, no idea, since MD compliant Ruger 556's are not exactly scarce. Maybe they had a surplus model that was not selling and a spare barrel. I hope your friend did not pay extra, MD Compliant Ruger 556s are going for around $525.

MDSP website is for information purposes only... A rifle without a heavy barrel would not have been legal to transfer after 10/1/2013 regardless of what the MDSP did or did not say. Also, there have been rifles put on the banned list, and taken off. the website is clear as mud. But the 8514 does not use the magic words "heavy" in the barrel description so I am thinking no bueno.

I'd go back to the FFL and sort it out. Certainly not in a public forum. The good news, the MD compliant version is just as nice.

gwchem · Mar 9, 2018

Model 8514 is banned. If that's what he bought, its illegal because it does not have a heavy barrel. Model 8511 has the heavy barrel.

Your buddy should check with the shop, like Nate suggests. If the shop didn't replace the barrel, then yes, it needs to be returned.

gwchem · Mar 9, 2018

Shooter_Drew said:
If this is a banned rifle (as of 2/28/18) I'm not sure, but maybe it was "OK" to purchase and just can't be purchased in this state after 2/28?

NO. In the condition ruger sells it, this gun was banned anytime after 10/1/2013.

NateIU10 · Mar 9, 2018

Shooter_Drew said:
The screen shot I have from him does show the model #8514 I've seen pictures of this online and I'm sure it's the one he has as I helped him sight it in.

He says he fell in love with that gun and said he doesn't want any other AR so unless there is a risk of legal issues I'm sure he's going to not want to return it or if he's even able to.

If this is a banned rifle (as of 2/28/18) I'm not sure, but maybe it was "OK" to purchase and just can't be purchased in this state after 2/28?

I did see the thread you are referring to and I know he didn't buy it from them. But what I don't understand is the part where it was being modified?

The MPR does not ship from the factory with a Heavy Barrel. Some dealers were swapping barrels in order to make them "marked or marketed" as heavy barrels. Easy enough, where did he buy it from?

Again, not weighing in on the legality of that practice. If the gun was sold in factory configuration as MD legal I have no idea what the dealer was thinking, honestly. That is why I would ask them. MSP answered some questions I posted up on here a long time ago with some MPIA requests and one of the questions was regarding the sale of "banned" guns and a later MSP determination. I honestly do not recall what there answer was, but I feel like it was a "we will take corrective action against the dealer, and maybe require a 77R after the fact." Again, I don't remember exactly what they said but it should exist somewhere on here.

Shooter_Drew · Mar 9, 2018

Well I'm pretty sure he bought a banned rifle. I'll tell him to contact the store and hash it out. BUT,

Lets say if he wanted to keep this could he install a HBAR and be safe? At that point it meets the barrel requirements and should therefore be no issue, if stores were changing the barrel and it was legal I don't see why he couldn't change the barrel and it be the same.

He said something about wanting to change the barrel from a 18" to a 16" which I told him it needed to be stamped (engraved HBAR) or to print out and information from the company he buys the barrel from that documents that it's an HBAR so he has a leg to stand on.

I've done the latter on one I've built and keep the printed information and sales invoice in my safe.

danb · Mar 9, 2018

If he is pretty sure he bought a banned rifle, putting a new barrel on it will not save any headache, even if that were legal. Which it isnt in all likelihood. Both the FFL and the buyer are in hot water. MDSP could theoretically show up on his (her) doorstep and take the rifle. That happened a few years ago with some rifles sold out of a VA FFL. ATF audited the shop, and MDSP showed up. MDSP could take the rifle, then the judge would sort out the legality of the barrel swap, some years later. The legal fees will far outstrip the value of the rifle. Best case, MDSP makes you do a 77r, but that is questionable since 77r only applies to legal, regulated, firearms. FFL does not want to be on the hook for selling a banned rifle either. Puts their license potentially at risk. My 0.02, go back to the FFL. Maybe there is more to the story.

Not_an_outlaw · Mar 9, 2018

I heard that non heavy barrels make firearms quicker to fire. So, sooner or later, it will be double super secret illegal. Just thought I'd add some gun grabbing language to the conversation.

rbird7282 · Mar 9, 2018

Shooter_Drew said:
All I have is a screen shot that he sent me from the MSP website. He said he could probably call the MSP firearms devision and ask but doesn't want anything to come back on him, I told him they already know what he owns.

He said it's just a basic Rugar AR-556 but this particular model # is listed as banned.

I'm sorry for being vague I'm just going by what we've talked about and trying to relay it to you guys.

MD sucks and makes this so unfun at times. I feel bad for him because he just got this and was so happy, now he's stressing about this.

If it was just a NICS check, (which is the way it should've been sold to him) then the state does not know about it unless he voluntarily registered it.
I'm not advocating breaking the law, the best solution is for him to contact the FFL he bought it from.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pinecone · Mar 12, 2018

1) The MSP list is NOT legally binding. They ever say so on the page. And there ARE mistakes.

2) Talk to the dealer. It may have had a barrel swap, or there may be other things going on. NO ONE on this site can tell you for sure. Especially without seeing the firearm.

Newly updated MSP banned list question

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