As if I needed another reason laws to get pissed off about CCW...

Abacab · Oct 14, 2009

Last night my girlfriend was driving home, alone, to Dundalk via Moravia Ave around 11:30pm. She stopped at a red light when a less than savory character approached her passenger side window. He had his face nearly pressed up against the window as he knocked on it. She cracked her window about a tenth of an inch as he persisted in rapping. The guy asked if she could drive him to a street that did not exist while going on about whatever travails he had that kept him from getting there. As she (misguidedly) continued to listen, she noticed another man approaching on her driver's side in the side view mirror with a crowbar in hand. In a moment of panic, she hit the gas and took off through the intersection despite not knowing if there was any on coming traffic.

The good news is she was not hurt, just a little shaken up. The bad news is that this happened at all. More frightening was the potential. At first she did not want to call the police out of paranoia that she would be accused of racism as they were two black males. I convinced her otherwise on alerting the authorities.

Why do I bring this up here? Because every time something like this happens, especially to someone I care about, I get more infuriated about how this state relegates us to sheep for the thugs. A single female driving through any oh-so-safe Baltimore area should have some way to protect herself outside of a large flashlight. Of course, Brian Frosh and friends think that's nuts. You can't even have a stun weapon in many parts of Maryland! She was ripe for carjacking (or worse) and fortunately was aware and suspicious. Someone else might not be so cognizant.

Didn't someone, sarcastically, suggest trying to pass a bill allowing only women to get shall-issue CCW permits?

:sad20:

My biggest fear was that she ran over the guy's foot and that he'd hire Frosh's law firm.

Abacab · Oct 14, 2009

Eh, can someone edit the subject line so it makes grammatical sense? I meant to write, "As if I need another reason to get pissed off about CCW laws..."

august1410 · Oct 14, 2009

Glad she's okay. I was just watching something on the news about the guys who kidnapped that couple at the Timonium light rail and raped the girl. The one guy was upset and shocked that he got 40 yrs in jail...

What is it about these mutts that makes them think they can do whatever to whomever with no consequences?

GNLaFrance · Oct 14, 2009

Abacab said:
At first she did not want to call the police out of paranoia that she would be accused of racism as they were two black males.

I'm pissed off because the system has her thinking that reporting criminal activity by black people might be racism.

Splitter · Oct 14, 2009

What a terrible scenario. Yep, she was essentially defenseless.

Now imagine if they duo had another accomplice who was ahead of her at the light preventing her from stomping on the gas. In a panic, trying to get the car into reverse....anything could have happened.

I feel your (her) pain.

NOw the really scary part is had she had a gun and CCW and felt threatened enough to use it, she would be in REAL trouble because she fired from a car....

Splitter

Sthomas229 · Oct 14, 2009

Splitter said:
What a terrible scenario. Yep, she was essentially defenseless.

Now imagine if they duo had another accomplice who was ahead of her at the light preventing her from stomping on the gas. In a panic, trying to get the car into reverse....anything could have happened.

I feel your (her) pain.

Splitter

Ever watch Personal Defense TV? They did a show on carjacking some months back. They suggested that in questionable areas, always leave extra space between you and the car in front of you so you have room to maneuver if something goes down.

alucard0822 · Oct 14, 2009

While I understand the sentiment, and agree concealed carry does help law abiding people stop millions of crimes every year where legal, in this situation she did fine, and basically proved that situational awareness is more important than anything else when it comes to defense. I carry daily myself (PA resident), and if faced with a similar situation, the only thing I may have done differently was to drive away when the first guy began knocking on the window. A 3,000lb car has a whole lot more stoping power than any gun in a bad situation, and as in this case can safely get you out of harms way quickly, which is the first priority weither carrying or not. Kudos to her for being aware of her surroundings, and properly defening herself, which does not neccesarily have to involve violence.

Abacab · Oct 15, 2009

alucard0822 said:
While I understand the sentiment, and agree concealed carry does help law abiding people stop millions of crimes every year where legal, in this situation she did fine, and basically proved that situational awareness is more important than anything else when it comes to defense. I carry daily myself (PA resident), and if faced with a similar situation, the only thing I may have done differently was to drive away when the first guy began knocking on the window. A 3,000lb car has a whole lot more stoping power than any gun in a bad situation, and as in this case can safely get you out of harms way quickly, which is the first priority weither carrying or not. Kudos to her for being aware of her surroundings, and properly defening herself, which does not neccesarily have to involve violence.

I agree with you that she did all that was necessary to defend herself and obviously came out fine. Perhaps I am relying too much here on the sentiment to make my point about self defense. The unmitigated helplessness if she did not have a 3 ton car is what really got me. Though as someone said above, a three man team might have made this a bit more tricky.

Obviously one cannot brandish to deter someone so driving away was the best choice.

Splitter · Oct 15, 2009

LOL, wait for the ticket from the red light camera before you get really pissed.

Splitter

alucard0822 · Oct 15, 2009

Splitter said:
What a terrible scenario. Yep, she was essentially defenseless.

Now imagine if they duo had another accomplice who was ahead of her at the light preventing her from stomping on the gas. In a panic, trying to get the car into reverse....anything could have happened.

I feel your (her) pain.

NOw the really scary part is had she had a gun and CCW and felt threatened enough to use it, she would be in REAL trouble because she fired from a car....

Splitter

Having her wits and 3,000 pounds of steel under her control, she was anything but defenseless, although agreed, having a gun, and the knowledge of how to use it would make her and every other MDer even more capable of defense.

As far as the human roadblock scenario, I wouldn't bother with reverse if that was the best way to get out of the situation, either the thug will jump out of the way, or stay put and get crushed, in reality if you are acting to defend yourself from a deadly threat there is little difference in what tool you use to defend yourself, you simply use the best tool at hand.

There are some valid reasons to shoot from a vehicle, and many that would almost be guaranteed to be ruled self defense, if they are attempting to get into the car and pose a deadly threat, if you are blocked in, and cannot get away, or if you are in a position where you may injure innocent people by trying to flee (assaulted while traffic or pedestrians are blocking your path of escape). There are also cases where an active shooter, or attacker with a weapon presents an immediate threat where driving would not get enough distance quick enough, and you would have to shoot out of or trough a window. In many states you may also use deadly force to prevent a deadly threat aggainst a 3rd party, say you park at a store being robbed as the criminals outside are shooting at the clerk or other people, but your position does not put you in the line of fire, and you have a route of escape, then you may be justified in taking a shot from a vehicle. It is very difficult to draw and fire from inside a car, and takes a lot of practice to do it quickly.

Old Salty Dog · Oct 15, 2009

Splitter said:
LOL, wait for the ticket from the red light camera before you get really pissed.

Splitter

+1. Good job by her watching the drivers side mirror. Gave her time to get away!

travistheone · Oct 15, 2009

Old Salty Dog said:
Good job by her watching the drivers side mirror. Gave her time to get away!

the good news is your girl isn't an idiot. her situational awareness 100% made the outcome positive. If she was scared into inaction, I don't want to think what could have happened.

Splitter · Oct 15, 2009

alucard0822 said:
Having her wits and 3,000 pounds of steel under her control, she was anything but defenseless, although agreed, having a gun, and the knowledge of how to use it would make her and every other MDer even more capable of defense.

As far as the human roadblock scenario, I wouldn't bother with reverse if that was the best way to get out of the situation, either the thug will jump out of the way, or stay put and get crushed, in reality if you are acting to defend yourself from a deadly threat there is little difference in what tool you use to defend yourself, you simply use the best tool at hand.

There are some valid reasons to shoot from a vehicle, and many that would almost be guaranteed to be ruled self defense, if they are attempting to get into the car and pose a deadly threat, if you are blocked in, and cannot get away, or if you are in a position where you may injure innocent people by trying to flee (assaulted while traffic or pedestrians are blocking your path of escape). There are also cases where an active shooter, or attacker with a weapon presents an immediate threat where driving would not get enough distance quick enough, and you would have to shoot out of or trough a window. In many states you may also use deadly force to prevent a deadly threat aggainst a 3rd party, say you park at a store being robbed as the criminals outside are shooting at the clerk or other people, but your position does not put you in the line of fire, and you have a route of escape, then you may be justified in taking a shot from a vehicle. It is very difficult to draw and fire from inside a car, and takes a lot of practice to do it quickly.

Good points all. I should clarify though that I was thinking of the third accomplice being in a car in front of her at the light.

+1 for her SA

Splitter

Norton · Oct 15, 2009

She did fine.

I agree with Alucard. Besides, it's amazing what a deterrent turning the wheel to the left and backing up can be to someone like that. :innocent0

c&rdaze · Oct 15, 2009

I've always heard that its a good procedure, when driving, to allow space between your car and the one in front of you when you pull up to stop of any kind, to give you space to get around that car. As a rule of thumb, I was advised to always stop far enough behind the car in front so that you can still fully see its rear tires. I always practice this and advise others to do so as well. Most of the time, I'm told that I'm just paraniod and to get a life. Funny, that's what I thought I was considering when doing this.

Being trapped in a car that cannot maneuver is basically one of the after-action lessons learned from the Paki gunman attack at the CIA turn lane several years ago.

Glad your gf had the awareness to get out of there in time, this is upsetting for all of us. Most of my family, I fear, would not notice until its to late.

snavematt · Oct 15, 2009

I wouldnt have opened my window period, leaving a space between cars is something I always do, also a good can of pepper spray is good to keep in the car.
Thank God she is ok

boothdoc · Oct 15, 2009

She did great and you should be proud of her.

Don't open the window and allow space always. A firearm should always be a last resort BUT It would be a great option to have when needed!

kalister1 · Oct 15, 2009

august1410 said:
Glad she's okay. I was just watching something on the news about the guys who kidnapped that couple at the Timonium light rail and raped the girl. The one guy was upset and shocked that he got 40 yrs in jail...

What is it about these mutts that makes them think they can do whatever to whomever with no consequences?

He ratted-out his buddy for a deal. He probably thought they would let him go free, or at least not tell everybody he ratted. He is dead meat when he gets to prison.

Markp · Oct 15, 2009

Norton said:
She did fine.

I agree with Alucard. Besides, it's amazing what a deterrent turning the wheel to the left and backing up can be to someone like that.

Does it matter if the deadly weapon you use to defend yourself is a car or a gun?

Mark

Norton · Oct 15, 2009

Markp said:
Does it matter if the deadly weapon you use to defend yourself is a car or a gun?

Mark

dunno from a legal standpoint....but I'd think you'd have a better defense with the car by saying, "He startled me and i wasn't sure he had a weapon so I was trying to get away and accidentally threw it into reverse."

As if I needed another reason laws to get pissed off about CCW...

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