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Old November 19th, 2017, 02:42 PM   #111
boss281
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I would love to see AGC support Steel and USPSA matches...

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Old November 19th, 2017, 02:55 PM   #112
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Violate the county permit and see what happens!
As I understand it, you are correct. The permit is for the construction of the berm.
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Old November 19th, 2017, 07:03 PM   #113
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Spoke to President D'asto today. Construction of the berm starts tomorrow and should be complete by the spring. Upon completion of the berm, 8 action bays will erected. This is going to be the greatest thing to happen at the AGC in many years and at only a fraction of the cost of that rediculous storage shed.
Curious, I just read the November AGC trustee meeting minutes and found no reference to initiating work on the berm, nor was any mention made of approving a contractor to do the work. Until you have a permit in hand, you have nothing so we don't even know if Baltimore County will even allow the action shooting bays to be built. Since the berm is an integral part of the project, wouldn't it make more sense to submit revised plans before we get carried away on another "storage shed" fiasco?

There was reference to the berm in the October minutes as to the low bid so far being $115,000, no contract was presented an no reference to a contract being signed. The same folks who were responsible for the shed are still in control so who knows? And AGC just approved buying a truck, dump trailer and snow plow for over $30K.

So where is the money for the berm coming from? If it is supposed to come from the 15 year badges, I have seen a worksheet that predicts that the 100 badges sold over the next 4 years will produce a net loss in income of over $107K over 15 years and that prediction is probably low. Plus it does not produce enough revenue to fund the reported cost of $115K in the near term.
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Old November 19th, 2017, 08:58 PM   #114
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Curious, I just read the November AGC trustee meeting minutes and found no reference to initiating work on the berm, nor was any mention made of approving a contractor to do the work. Until you have a permit in hand, you have nothing so we don't even know if Baltimore County will even allow the action shooting bays to be built. Since the berm is an integral part of the project, wouldn't it make more sense to submit revised plans before we get carried away on another "storage shed" fiasco?

There was reference to the berm in the October minutes as to the low bid so far being $115,000, no contract was presented an no reference to a contract being signed. The same folks who were responsible for the shed are still in control so who knows? And AGC just approved buying a truck, dump trailer and snow plow for over $30K.

So where is the money for the berm coming from? If it is supposed to come from the 15 year badges, I have seen a worksheet that predicts that the 100 badges sold over the next 4 years will produce a net loss in income of over $107K over 15 years and that prediction is probably low. Plus it does not produce enough revenue to fund the reported cost of $115K in the near term.
We can play with the numbers and tell any story you like. At the end of the day, it is a shooting range and the stake holders should support them spending money on anything shooting related (this does not include wasting money on storage sheds).

Assumptions

100 will buy a full price range badge every year for the 15 years would generate $297,000. Not taking into account the time value of money or future range badge increases, this would create a 15 year deficit of $122,000.

2018 - $180 x 100 = $18,000
2019 - $190 x 100 = $19,000
2020 - 2032 $200 x 100 x 13 = $260,000

$297,000 - $175,000 = $122,000

I doubt any reasonable person believes that all 100 15 year badge holders would buy a range badge every year going forward. Assuming a reduction of just 6 badge holders per year eliminates this deficit.

Action shooting is the future of the shooting sports. That said, it is tough to estimate how much additional revenue the shooting bays will generate, but no one can deny (except for those in denial that these shooting bays will ever be built), that they will result in an increase in the number of range badges sold. It will also undoubtedly generate fee income when the AGC starts to host organized action shooting events.

There are two things that I am certain of. They are starting on this berm tomorrow and they are planning on building action shooting bays once the berm in complete.

It would certainly be a shame if the AGC spent the $92,000 to build the berm and then were cock blocked on the construction of the bays. Lets hope that no one on the inside has plans to intentionally sabotage the project. If anyone were to try this, then they should be given a permanent vacation from the AGC and go find somewhere else to do their bulls eye shooting.
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Old November 19th, 2017, 09:04 PM   #115
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It would certainly be a shame if the AGC spent the $92,000 to build the berm and then were cock blocked on the construction of the bays. Lets hope that no one on the inside has plans to intentionally sabotage the project. If anyone were to try this, then they should be given a permanent vacation from the AGC and go find somewhere else to do their bulls eye shooting.
I would imagine the bulls eye shooters would be the biggest supporters of he action shooting bays.


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Old November 19th, 2017, 09:06 PM   #116
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I would imagine the bulls eye shooters would be the biggest supporters of he action shooting bays.
If true, then we should be good to go.
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Old November 19th, 2017, 09:56 PM   #117
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I doubt any reasonable person believes that all 100 15 year badge holders would buy a range badge every year going forward. Assuming a reduction of just 6 badge holders per year eliminates this deficit.

Action shooting is the future of the shooting sports. That said, it is tough to estimate how much additional revenue the shooting bays will generate, but no one can deny (except for those in denial that these shooting bays will ever be built), that they will result in an increase in the number of range badges sold. It will also undoubtedly generate fee income when the AGC starts to host organized action shooting events.

There are two things that I am certain of. They are starting on this berm tomorrow and they are planning on building action shooting bays once the berm in complete.
YTD action shooting is over $6K behind projected YTD income of $9K. The construction of action ranges would certainly help to offset that because the current facilities don't lend themselves to action shooting and that is probably having a negative impact on the sport and income. Real action ranges would certainly improve participation and that means more income.

I'm not sure why anyone would buy a 15 year badge if they otherwise would not be buying annual badges until about 2026 or so. As to the projections on revenue on the 15 year badges, I think a side by side comparison is valid; we can be sure that anyone who buys a 15 year badge won't be buying an annual badge at whatever the going rate turns out to be. AGC is growing so we can be pretty sure that new members will compensate for the 15 year badges. Comparing the revenue from 100 badges at the annual rate over 15 years will produce far more revenue than 100 15 year badges. That is a simple fact. The real question is what the spread will be and that will be a function of future annual range badge increases, how much and when they occur between the current $200 in two years and when the 15 year badges expire in 2032. What is needed for this concept to work is for a large number (66 or better) of badges to be sold in the very near future to pay for the berm.

I have never done any action shooting competition but would like to try it and look forward to having a safe purpose built range and some experienced shooters who might be willing to provide guidance.

I have heard that Thurmont does action shooting. Does anyone have any figures on how many folks use that range, how often they shoot and how much revenue action shooting generates? Do they do teams that might produce Thurmont - AGC shooting competition? Do they allow spectators who simply want to learn what it is all about?
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Old November 19th, 2017, 10:33 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Kilroy3006 View Post
I have never done any action shooting competition but would like to try it and look forward to having a safe purpose built range and some experienced shooters who might be willing to provide guidance.

I have heard that Thurmont does action shooting. Does anyone have any figures on how many folks use that range, how often they shoot and how much revenue action shooting generates? Do they do teams that might produce Thurmont - AGC shooting competition? Do they allow spectators who simply want to learn what it is all about?


Thurmont is a fabulous range. They have at least 8 action shooting bays that between IDPA, CAS, two gun, three gun, etc... are in use all the time. Their calendar is on line, anyone who doubts can check it out themselves.

I shoot IDPA there and know that they allow spectators, I imagine the other shooting sports would as well

Frederick IWLA also started IDPA matches in 2016 which are always well attended.

I'm a member at AGC, but if Thurmont was closer I would belong there. Bigger better and from what I've seen a more laid back range. I've probably shot more at Thurmont and Frederick than I have at AGC in the last two years.

I was going to say that Action Shooting is the wave of the future, but in reality it's the wave of the now. AGC is severely behind the times. The Action Shooting bays can't get built fast enough, IMO.


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Old November 20th, 2017, 06:11 AM   #119
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I was going to say that Action Shooting is the wave of the future, but in reality it's the wave of the now. AGC is severely behind the times. The Action Shooting bays can't get built fast enough, IMO.
Stoveman speaks the Truth - Those who have never experienced the Action Shooting sports are really missing out. Those ranges that refuse to embrace it will slowly shrivel up and die.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 06:32 AM   #120
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The problem at AGC has always been that you are fighting an internal "good old boys" network. I was a member of AGC for 25 years and 15 years ago, we tried to change the tide. We had several "pro action shooting" people elected to the Board but it still wasn't enough to get them to change. Most of those members quit from frustration.

I hope it works out but I won't hold my breath.


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