Semiauto to manual action

vgplayer · Aug 10, 2019

Came across a product and it got me thinking...

MDs "assault long gun" ban and copycat tests apply only to semi-automatic long guns. According to the MDSP Firearm Search Page (https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organizat...LicensingDivision/Firearms/FirearmSearch.aspx) the first test of legal or not is:

1) Is this weapon semi-automatic? If not, it is not banned and you do not need to continue.

So the product that sparked my thinking is a changing handle and gas key that makes an AR require manual cycling for each round therefore no longer semi-automatic. https://kalikey.com/product/ar15-kali-key/

So the questions are:
1) Could a dealer install this device or something similar rendering a previously "banned" semi-automatic rifle transferable?
2) Could any dealer do this or must they also be licenced as a manufacturer?
3) Instead of installing a device, what if an essential part of the semi-automatic system was removed making it no longer function as a semi-automatic rifle? ie a gas tube for an AR or a gas piston for an AK.

Threeband · Aug 10, 2019

To what end, young man?

A few years ago someone was marketing a crossbow upper for AR15s. I think you can get a muzzle loading upper also.

I'd like a hammer drill upper, myself. I could use a new hammer drill.

GuitarmanNick · Aug 10, 2019

Never assume anything logical will be accepted by the idiots making the laws. Most know nothing about firearms so if it looks mean or has a bad**s name, it must be banned to save the lives!

Threeband · Aug 10, 2019

Years ago a member here had an AK pump action varient that he was trying to sell without success.

I think manually operated ARs have been marketed in the past as well, but why pray tell would you want one?

We need no such foolishness here. Just buy an AR.

Or get one of these:

https://youtu.be/rZZTD3w_a5Q

noddaz · Aug 10, 2019

Don't let the naysayers...

This might not have been the best place to ask that type of question.

To me it is an interesting question. If you want to try it, go ahead and try it.

And then come on back here and let us know what you think about it.

And if you don't like it, you can always switch it back. No harm done.

Seriously, let us know. (At least I am interested...)

Threeband · Aug 10, 2019

If course you could do it; there's no question of that. It's easier with some guns than others. Just take out the gas plug on a Garand, for instance. 30 seconds, and switch back just as easily.
It's not so straightforward on an AR, though.

I get the impression that the OP is thinking of working some legal loophole though, which is why I wonder what the point is.

K31 · Aug 10, 2019

I saw Garands that were neutered ("sporterized") to be manually operated.

Boats · Aug 10, 2019

Pretty straight forward on an AR. Just remove the gas tube. Could probably removing the gas rings would probably work too.

If you have an adjustable gas block like a superlative arms, just turn off the gas. Instant repeater.

Threeband · Aug 10, 2019

Removing and replacing the gas tube on an AR is a big deal.

And you end up with a really awkward straight pull bolt gun, awkward because your nose is in the way of the charging handle.

Removing the gas plug on a Garand takes maybe 30 seconds, using only a big screwdriver/combo tool/or gas plug wrench. You can do it right on the firing line, and switch back just as easily. No need for a vise and special wrenches. And the Garand would make an ergonomically handy straight-pull. No need to disturb your cheek weld. I've never bothered to do it though.

Does the OP think there's a legal advantage? I suspect he's looking to a day when semi-autos are banned, thinking he can have an imitation AR. Or he's thinking of dealers selling ARs with no gas tube, with a view to buyers illegally installing gas tubes at home.

I think that's what he's really on about.

vgplayer · Aug 10, 2019

My thought was to potentially have another option for acquiring something that previously may have been not possible.

I know there are guns I wanted but didn't have the funds before 10/1/13. There is also a class of people that were under 18 before 10/1/13.

One example I can think of is if you really wanted to do a retro A1 clone but don't have any pre 10/1/13 lowers.

One potential option could be modifying when out of state and restored to a legal config before coming back.

I realize there are several ways to get most things but not everyone is willing to go through HQL (for a pistol version) or SBR route.

GunBum · Aug 10, 2019

vgplayer said:
1) Could a dealer install this device or something similar rendering a previously "banned" semi-automatic rifle transferable?

It would still be a semi-auto. Replacing one part doesn’t make it no longer a semi-auto.

vgplayer said:
3) Instead of installing a device, what if an essential part of the semi-automatic system was removed making it no longer function as a semi-automatic rifle? ie a gas tube for an AR or a gas piston for an AK.

Then it is a semi-auto missing a part. Still semi-auto. Just broken.

vgplayer · Aug 10, 2019

I'm not sure if Maryland redefines semiautomatic but
18 U.S. Code § 921

(28) The term “semiautomatic rifle” means any repeating rifle which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.

Source (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921)

It wouldn't meet the definition of semiautomic rifle according to US Code. It would meet the defintion of a rifle:
18 U.S. Code § 921

(7) The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

Threeband · Aug 10, 2019

You could build something in a caliber other than 5.56.

vgplayer · Aug 10, 2019

I'm thinking broader than just AR15s which I agree are easy.

Doco Overboard · Aug 10, 2019

I thought that's what a Bob-Sled did.

Threeband · Aug 10, 2019

Do you mean a SLED? That makes it a single shot.

Anyway, the OP seems to be looking for a legal work around.

I think Gunbum is right: an AK without an op rod is just an AK missing a part.

danb · Aug 10, 2019

I think Troy and a few others already make a pump action "AR". Completely legal. You could probably fidget with the bolt and charging handle, but pump action is a better solution.

If you want a pump action .223, buy it. Or 7.62x39. Or whatever floats your boat.

ETA: Troy also makes a straight pull rifle: https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/50-state-legal-side-charging-troy/

Cycled with the charging handle. MD legal.

Doco Overboard · Aug 10, 2019

Threeband said:
Do you mean a SLED? That makes it a single shot.

Anyway, the OP seems to be looking for a legal work around.

I think Gunbum is right: an AK without an op rod is just an AK missing a part.

No I mean Bob-Sled, it's just a dummy mag with a spring loaded plunger on the stern. Last time I checked they were legal as long as they were the same dimensions as a twenty round straight mag.
Theirs a short one too for shooting from the bench so it doesn't interfere with the rest.
The long one is legal as long as you don't use it to support the rifle from prone. I hope they're still legal I used one for a hundred rounds practicing today @ the 300

Anyway, I would make a lower that just had breakaway tabs allowing the removal of a magazine well filler that could be replaced with a functioning magazine.

Joshua · Aug 11, 2019

Very interesting idea there

Boats · Aug 11, 2019

I remember for a long while on California, FFLs were selling single shot converted pistols to get around the CA pistol roster, as the law there said that single shot pistols were exempt from the roster.

It usually involved a zero capacity magazine. Hence requiring a manual reload after every round.

I realize that was a different state but I wonder if that would work here

Semiauto to manual action

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