Reloading .38 special and 9mm costs/?s

Intarsiac · Dec 26, 2008

Just did the paperwork for a new S&W Model 60 .357 (2 1/8") and consequently now will be adding some new (to me) calibers to my ammunition inventory, which is currently 9mm and .22lR. Considering reloading and have a few preliminary questions. I think Alucard had a great post a while ago (which I can't find, of course) comparing reloading prices versus buying new.
Is this a good estimate for a ballpark cost per round for 9mm?
used brass - .00
powder - .02 (thinking average 7 grains per)
primer - .03
bullet - .12
Total - .17 (versus .20 for Wally World WWB)

Is the brass different for .38 special and .38 special +p? In other words can headstamped .38 special brass be loaded to +p?

On a press, do .38 special and .357 use the same die set?

I am thinking of buying the Speer #14 reloading manual (any other reference recommendations?) and reading up before deciding and diving in.

Thanks!

kalister1 · Dec 26, 2008

The 357 is ~.1" longer, so a 357 crimp die will not crimp a 38SP case. You can just buy a 38SP die set and it use it on both. I bought both set's and 1 carbide size die. I got tired of adjusting the dies, having both sets was/is easier for me.
I don't have a clue about +P cases?

j8064 · Dec 26, 2008

Intarsiac,
As you've already figured out beyond the initial investment in equipment, the bullets are usually the biggest cost of components. You can get 125 gr or so 9MM bullets cheaper than .12 each if you look around. I picked up some decent FMJ 125's for less than $8/100 at some recent gun shows. Not match bullets by any means, but fine for range shooting. Buying in bulk online is a lot less than getting 100 or so at a time. That'll get you to about $14/100 for loaded rounds. If you don't have your C&R, get it. Lot's of suppliers pass along nice discounts to C&R holders!

If you don't mind shooting cast there are many sources. I've used Roger's Better Bullets in both 9MM and .38. King's is close (King of Prussia, PA) and shipping isn't bad at all. Lead is usually cheaper than jacketed: http://www.betterbullets.com/documents/KSS_Pricing.pdf
And there's always the route of casting your own (which I do for both calibers).

On the dies, most brands will load both .38 SP and .357. The cases are the same except for length. If you plan on using the same die for both calibers, just double check before you purchase. Adjusting the seating die when you switch from one to the other isn't a big deal.

I don't load +p rounds but the brass may well be the same - just marked at the factory for what was originally loaded. Someone else may chime in on that. I've used plenty of +p cases for standard loads and never had a problem.

Many good reloading books out there: Lyman, Speer, Lee, Hornady and others. The reloading info published by major manufacturers is certainly more reliable than internet loads posted by an individual.

Understand what you're doing, do it safely AND make no mistakes!

Hope that helps.

joppaj · Dec 26, 2008

Just as an aside, for a .38 bullet, try the Remington bulk JHP's. Certainly not ultra premiums, but they load well, are relativly cheap and are widely available.

Drmsparks · Dec 26, 2008

Intarsiac said:
A better estimate
used brass - .00
powder - .02 (thinking average 4.9 grains per, WSF)
primer - .027
bullet - .09 124g FMJ
Total - .13.7 (versus .20 for Wally World WWB)

I am thinking of buying the Speer #14 reloading manual (any other reference recommendations?) and reading up before deciding and diving in.

I did the math on loading 9mm today. I am doing .45acp and .357 now.

The 38 and 357 dies are the same, but as noted there is a serious readjustment required to load both. It's easier to have two different die sets.

I'd add the hornady manual as a load reference and the abc's of reloading as a general reference.

Intarsiac · Dec 26, 2008

Thanks all for the great info! I'm liking the $.14/round estimate a lot better.
If I go the reloading route, it'll initially be for target/practice use as I'll buy factory home/self defense rounds.

smokey · Dec 26, 2008

9 mm u should look at the rainier bullets. they're cheaper than fmj rounds, more consistent, shoot better and still load very well. i've had great experiences loading them up...even the hollow points fed every time.....the only drawback was that the hollow points didnt always press down into the case properly with the hollow points. if you get the 124 gr ranier plated bullets with hs-6 powder you'll be impressed with the results
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=471211

Fustercluck · Dec 26, 2008

As an aside about handloading hot rounds (like +p), you will likely find yourself enjoying shooting much more with a lighter load. The lyman reloading manual is one of the best investments you can make, and you will find that the most accurate loads for your wheelgun will be nowhere near +p pressures in .38. You will likely not load much .357, unless you are developing a good hunting load. If you are going to shoot your 9mm competitively, your loads will likewise be far below +p pressures, even when you are trying to make IDPA power factor. The gun will be stressed less with the lighter loads, and your follow-up shots will be more accurate.

Have a blast. Reloading is a sport in and of itself. You will find that meticulous reloading will reward you with much tighter groups than even the highest quality factory ammunition can achieve.
D

smokey · Dec 26, 2008

as another aside....i believe i've said it before, but fustercluck...your name has to be one of my favorite i've ever seen with maybe the exception of "iamthatguy" on an online poker site.....that is all

E.Shell · Dec 26, 2008

kalister1 said:
The 357 is ~.1" longer, so a 357 crimp die will not crimp a 38SP case. You can just buy a 38SP die set and it use it on both. I bought both set's and 1 carbide size die. I got tired of adjusting the dies, having both sets was/is easier for me.
I don't have a clue about +P cases?

I made a spacer that I put under the lock ring of my .38/.357 die so I don't have to re-adjust when changing calibers.

That ammo reloading cost calculator, that IIRC Alucard0822 posted (?), is here:http://10xshooters.com/calculators/Rifle_Reloading_Cost_Calculator.htm

Intarsiac · Dec 27, 2008

For the reloaders out there - are you self-taught by buying a press and diving into the manuals or did you take a course of instruction somewhere to get started?

E.Shell · Dec 27, 2008

Intarsiac said:
For the reloaders out there - are you self-taught by buying a press and diving into the manuals or did you take a course of instruction somewhere to get started?

Self-taught. When I got started in '71, there weren't any instructors around, and reloading was not as commonplace as it is these days.

Now, the NRA certifies Reloading Instructors, and you can also arrange to attend a local clinic, such as the one Drmsparks and some of the guys put on a few weeks back.

It is as complicated as one wishes to make it. We can go from simply refilling cartridges cases so they'll go BOOM again and save a few bucks, or, we can painstakingly assemble top quality target ammo and buy the best of everything. Simple and inexpensive equipment will serve many purposes, or one can invest big bucks in precision and/or automation.

It would help to set a goal and decide on a starting point.

One can say "All I want to do is feed my 9mm", and just get what's needed to support the required volume. By the same token, one can decide they wish to compete in benchrest and this will require extra processes and extra equipment that is ofetn quite costly.

It's not all that difficult, if one is technically adept and can follow instructions. Having an experienced reloader help you get up to speed is a definite jump-start, but not a necessity.

In any case, with all of the online resources, getting started can be as easy as reading as much as you can find and filtering/averaging the results.

j8064 · Dec 27, 2008

What E. Shell said +1.

Also self taught, but had a great mentor who introduced me to the basics, fundamentals and carved the 'safety' piece into my head 25 years ago: "THERE IS NO MARGIN FOR MISTAKES" when hand loading cartridges.

The mechanics of building a safe, shootable cartridge are simple. Repitition of that process is simple. There are only four component parts to a cartridge: Case, primer, powder charge and projectile. But each caliber (and firearm) is different and has its own nuances when reloading. All those components must be in concert to work effectively and safely in the firearm for which they were loaded. Understanding those points and employing that understanding is critical to learning.

Reloading is a wonderful experience, but not one to be undertaken lightly.

Drmsparks · Dec 27, 2008

j8064 said:
What E. Shell said +1.

Also self taught, but had a great mentor who introduced me to the basics, fundamentals and carved the 'safety' piece into my head 25 years ago: "THERE IS NO MARGIN FOR MISTAKES" when hand loading cartridges.

Reloading is a wonderful experience, but not one to be undertaken lightly.

I had my reloading equipment a couple of months before I used it for the first time.

I hosted the clinic as a student, to get pointers from guys who had been doing it a while and one of them helped me set up my first set of dies. Slow and easy to start. I haven't worked up to rifle cartridges yet but will soon.

alucard0822 · Dec 28, 2008

Can't remember the thread where I went into the cost of reloading(didn't save it), but I know I have posted the link Ed refers to above.

Reloading is freedom, not only can you ensure a supply of ammo when you need it, load ammo that can't be bought, and learn much more about shooting, it is also cheaper and easier to stock up on components when you find a good deal instead of loaded ammo.

For 9mm, I load mostly to save money, but also try to eek out good accuracy and reliability from cheap components. I just basically buy 124gr plated or FMJ bullets from whoever has them the cheapest and load them in front of HS-6 and CCI small pistol primers. In this caliber, I do mostly short range combat drills, so accuracy is not that big a deal, but cost and reliability are, a warm load of HS-6 will push the bullet between standard and +p velocities, so the pistol doesn't get beat up too bad, but I get most of the feel of my factory +p carry loads.

For 38/357, my "standard loads" are 125gr plated bullets in front of a light charge of bullseye, they shoot well, and don't beat me or my j-frame up too bad. I also load 158gr plated bullets to standard pressure with bullseye, this pretty well duplicates my carry load in 38, and for the 357, it is a very accurate, yet controllable load. For my "shock and awe" loads, I use a 125gr XTP in front of H110, they clock somewhere around 1700FPS from my 686, and top 2,050FPS from my carbine, they are extremely accurate at 100yards out of either, and shoot very flat, I would not reccomend these in anything lighter than a GP100 or 686, they thump quite a bit, and while safe, would tear up a small revolver if shot with any frequency. I use the same carbide die set for 38 and 357, but also use a factory crimp/post sizing die to keep the bullets from setting back in the snubby, or lever gun, it will securely crimp non-cannelured lead and plated bullets.

Fustercluck · Dec 28, 2008

Self-taught, started in 1990. I picked up every book I could find (before the internet was useful for such things), and pored over all the information. At first, it was a means to an end when I was cash-poor and shooting bullseye and 9mm on a regular basis. Quickly moved into the benchrest and silhouette, varmint hunting, and maximizing accuracy from EBR's. Now, I load .223, 6BR, .38, 9mm, 40s&W, and .45ACP. Reloading can be a serioius illness if you are (not) careful.

Mike511 · Dec 28, 2008

Alucard0822.

For 38/357, my "standard loads" are 125gr plated bullets in front of a light charge of bullseye, they shoot well, and don't beat me or my j-frame up too bad.

I was going to try some Berrys plated 125gr fp..what charge of bullseye do you recomend ?
i also shot J-frame and ruger speed six.

Topher · Dec 28, 2008

Here is the cost calculator:
http://10xshooters.com/calculators/Rifle_Reloading_Cost_Calculator.htm

+1 for self taught.

YouTube and buddies from the range filled in a lot of gaps from the manuals.

Drmsparks · Dec 29, 2008

I'd be interested in your plated load info- i've got about a 1000 of those puppies sitting around that I was going to get rid of, but I could load them up for plinking with my J frame....

alucard0822 · Dec 29, 2008

Mike511 said:
Alucard0822.

For 38/357, my "standard loads" are 125gr plated bullets in front of a light charge of bullseye, they shoot well, and don't beat me or my j-frame up too bad.

I was going to try some Berrys plated 125gr fp..what charge of bullseye do you recomend ?
i also shot J-frame and ruger speed six.

normally 4 grains in a 38, 7 grains for 357. They are fairly light loads, and accurate, you can work them up all the way to 4.4 in 38sp and 8.4 in 357 if desired, but I normally go with a slower powder if I am trying to get more velocity out of them, that normally works better than going with a max charge of a fast powder. I have also had good luck with 5 grains of trailboss in 38, behind a 125gr cast bullet, cheap, soft shooting, and accurate, also doesn't lead up too much.

Reloading .38 special and 9mm costs/?s

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