New Saiga 12

Based on what you provided, novus, I'd say the Saigas are not AKs. Semi-automatic, yes, but internal design and parts layout are totally different.

This is why I hate Maryland's regulated firearms laws. Because having a technical understand of a gun's action and layout doesn't match the layman's. They look at the shell. I could argue that a Saiga shottie and a WASR-10 are not the same weapon despite similarities in their external appearance on some parts.

Likewise, the debate over the Sig 552. The 552 is a different gun. A descendant of the 550/551 family, functionally similar but its internal design is different. Where do we draw the line between "copy of" and new rifle?

This place makes me want to scream in frustration at times. Or go to the range. At least if MD had mirrored the 1994 AWB parameters, we'd have a reasonable, understandable (if pointless) way of determining, as a layman, the difference between regulated and non-regulated.

The law is supposed to be understandable by those it would affect. Everything I've seen from Maryland's laws is the opposite and it seems to be a minefield to trap the unwary by design. I often wonder how FFL's even manage to stay in business in this state at times.

</end_rant>

Matt

The saiga 12 and the ak are very much the same. I have both. Same gas piston, same trigger groups, same buttstocks and pistol grips, same dust covers, same recievers. They can use the same recoil spring.

Different bolt on the s12, different rails, dust cover is notched, gas piston is notched, but all the differences are for the different caliber. Its like the differences between an ar15 and an ar10.

The md statute states, iirc, "kalishnakov rifles in any format", the saiga 12 is NOT a rifle, it is a shotgun, if it were considered a rifle - it would be a DD because of its bore diameter.

Jaybeez said:

The saiga 12 and the ak are very much the same. I have both. Same gas piston, same trigger groups, same buttstocks and pistol grips, same dust covers, same recievers. They can use the same recoil spring.

Different bolt on the s12, different rails, dust cover is notched, gas piston is notched, but all the differences are for the different caliber. Its like the differences between an ar15 and an ar10.

The md statute states, iirc, "kalishnakov rifles in any format", the saiga 12 is NOT a rifle, it is a shotgun,

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But it also says "AK-47 in all forms". Now does that mean AKMs or not? Does it include SAIGAs?
I have no idea.

if it were considered a rifle - it would be a DD because of its bore diameter.

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NOt true. If that were true then slug guns would also be DD. If it uses sporting ammo and the rifle is for sporting purposes, then it is not a DD. THink the .600 Jeffferies.

Ok so hmmm where can I get a S 12? and then the parts to convert it? very interested ;-)

novus collectus said:

But it also says "AK-47 in all forms". Now does that mean AKMs or not? Does it include SAIGAs?
I have no idea.

NOt true. If that were true then slug guns would also be DD. If it uses sporting ammo and the rifle is for sporting purposes, then it is not a DD. THink the .600 Jeffferies.

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An ak-47 is an akm rifle chambered in 7.62x39. Go by what is written, in the language it is written in. Obviously if the legislature meant to include the 556, xcr and s12, they could have written those on the list. Anyone who gives an "opinion" is just that, and you have to look at where the opinion is coming from. By being so specific about what is on the list, they have actually left openings. This is the full list : http://www.mdsp.org/downloads/assault_weapons.pdf
They also have the galil and the valmet listed. Those rifles are ak's too with just different sights, chambered in 5.56. By listing specific akm varieties, by caliber, i think they leave the door open.


Of course , my opinion, is just that, an opinion.

mpickering said:

Based on what you provided, novus, I'd say the Saigas are not AKs. Semi-automatic, yes, but internal design and parts layout are totally different.



</end_rant>

Matt

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We've already thrashed this subject...go back a page to post 22....I'm as frustrated as you over the law....

I have a Saiga-12, and there are USA 10rd mags available, and 20rd drums too!
The wife has a Saiga .410 and I converted it with a Yugo underfolder. 10 rd mags are still $$ and order fron UK. But these things rock.

where to buy 20rd drums at?

Jaybeez said:

WRONG!!!!!!!

"(p) "Regulated firearm" means:


(1) a handgun; or


(2) a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon:"

"(ii) AK-47 in all forms;"


"(xxvii) Avtomat Kalashnikov semiautomatic rifle in any format;"


http://mlis.state.md.us/cgi-win/web_statutes.exe?gps&5-101

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You could argue that the shotgun is not a "rifle" because it doesn't have a rifled bore. The question is, WOULD you?

squirrels said:

You could argue that the shotgun is not a "rifle" because it doesn't have a rifled bore. The question is, WOULD you?

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You could argue that the saiga 12 and ak-47 share the same receivers. The regulated part is the same. (for the most part). I've argued both sides of the debate, but i dont wanna be the test case. I did the regulated paper work on mine.



keepshooting.com has taiwan made, saiga12 5 round mags, 19.95 each, 3 or more for 14.95 each, hell of a deal, seller is based out of MD, when mine get here i'll give a range report.

Jaybeez said:

You could argue that the saiga 12 and ak-47 share the same receivers. The regulated part is the same. (for the most part). I've argued both sides of the debate, but i dont wanna be the test case. I did the regulated paper work on mine.



keepshooting.com has taiwan made, saiga12 5 round mags, 19.95 each, 3 or more for 14.95 each, hell of a deal, seller is based out of MD, when mine get here i'll give a range report.

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Speaking o which, mine jsut came in the mail, and i'm impressed, def a good buy on these mags.