357 magnum got to beat 700 foot pounds

SlugCaster · Aug 10, 2020

be sure to remember you have to meet or exceed the 700 foot pounds with the new rifle pistol law. a 158 grain bullet of any kind in a 357 magnum is not going to exceed the 700 foot pounds in a short 6" barrel handgun. if i am wrong please tell me how you can do it with a 158 grain bullet.

Park ranger · Aug 10, 2020

SlugCaster said:
be sure to remember you have to meet or exceed the 700 foot pounds with the new rifle pistol law. a 158 grain bullet of any kind in a 357 magnum is not going to exceed the 700 foot pounds in a short barrel handgun. if i am wrong please tell me how you can do it with a 158 grain bullet.

I'm having trouble doing it with gobs of powder in a 8". A 158 at 1414 fps seems just out of reach.

JDH146 · Aug 10, 2020

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=102
From DNR regulations
Handguns used for deer hunting must have a barrel length of six inches or more and use ammunition which produces a muzzle energy of 700 foot pounds or more. Consult ammunition guides for ballistics information.

They also have 2 180gr loads

SlugCaster · Aug 10, 2020

JDH146 said:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=102
From DNR regulations
Handguns used for deer hunting must have a barrel length of six inches or more and use ammunition which produces a muzzle energy of 700 foot pounds or more. Consult ammunition guides for ballistics information.

They also have 2 180gr loads

This is the Reloading section. not the refer me to the factory ammo section. besides, buffalo bore is not exceeding the 700 foot pound minimum with 158 or 180 grain bullets in a 6 inch or more handgun barrel. 158 and 180 grain bullets will never create the velocity to allow for the 700 minim foot pounds. they state this right on their website. you have to use a 125 grain bullet. that is what they are using. they are not using the 158 grain or 180 grain bullets.

Biggfoot44 · Aug 10, 2020

Public Service Announcement : Due to the interplay of multiple mechanical factors , " identical " revolvers of the same barrel length can have signicantly different velocities with the same ammunition . Google for " Why Ballisticans turn Grey " . An essay by Alan Jones , then chief ballistican for Speer , originally published in a Speer reloading manual , reprinted many times .

The bottom line , .357 Revolvers of same barrel length can vary 200 fps .( I have had a specific " fast" 4in gun go faster than a specific " slow " 6in gun .) No reflection on the skills or character of Park Ranger , but perhaps that specific revolver runs " slow " .

I have personally chronographed .357 handloads that exceeded 850 ft lbs from an 8 3/8 inch M686 , so yes it IS possible .

Added - This whole topic is more of an arbitrary Md DNR thing , than a reflection upon ability to kill Bambi . A non- expanding .357 158 @ 1300 will completely penetrate Bambi lung shot just as much as would at 1414 fps . With expanding .357 projectiles , what's critical is the bullet performance at actual impact velocity .

On paper , hot 125gr loads develop more ft lb than possible with 158 ( or more ) , but a 158 Gold Dot or XTP will give better bullet performance than any jacked 125gr .

Park ranger · Aug 10, 2020

SlugCaster said:
This is the Reloading section. not the refer me to the factory ammo section. besides, buffalo bore is not exceeding the 700 foot pound minimum with 158 or 180 grain bullets in a 6 inch or more handgun barrel. 158 and 180 grain bullets will never create the velocity to allow for the 700 minim foot pounds. they state this right on their website. you have to use a 125 grain bullet. that is what they are using. they are not using the 158 grain or 180 grain bullets.

You know this as a fact? You've bought buffalo bore and have chronograph it? I'm looking at their page right now and in a 5" S&W 27 they list a 158 JHP 1457 fps.

Want me to do the math for you? 1457×1457×158÷450436= 744 foot pounds. Now if it achieves that or not, idk. But if they can, I can. Just maybe not in a "slow" gun like was pointed out.

Bisleyfan44 · Aug 10, 2020

SlugCaster said:
This is the Reloading section. not the refer me to the factory ammo section. besides, buffalo bore is not exceeding the 700 foot pound minimum with 158 or 180 grain bullets in a 6 inch or more handgun barrel. 158 and 180 grain bullets will never create the velocity to allow for the 700 minim foot pounds. they state this right on their website. you have to use a 125 grain bullet. that is what they are using. they are not using the 158 grain or 180 grain bullets.

So at the risk of offending you with factory ammo choices that ACTUALLY DO EXCEED 700ft/lbs:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=100

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=102

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=541

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=278

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...ad-flat-nose-gas-check?variant=18785707851833

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...-jacketed-hollow-point?variant=18816361398329

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...-jacketed-hollow-point?variant=18785727021113

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...-jacketed-hollow-point?variant=18785727086649

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...rain-xtreme-penetrator?variant=18785701068857

https://doubletapammo.com/collections/357-magnum/products/357-mag-158gr-bonded-defensea-jhp-20rds

https://doubletapammo.com/collectio...57-mag-158gr-controlled-expansion-a-jhp-20rds

https://doubletapammo.com/collections/357-magnum/products/357-mag-180gr-hardcast-solid-a-20rds

https://doubletapammo.com/collections/357-magnum/products/357-mag-200gr-hardcast-solid-a-20rds

https://www.grizzlycartridge.com/sh...tion/handgun/revolver/357-magnum-180gr-wfngc/

https://www.grizzlycartridge.com/sh...tion/handgun/revolver/357-magnum-200gr-wlngc/

https://pmcammo.com/product/bronze-357a/

https://ppu-usa.com/ppu/357-magnum-defense/

And I probably missed some. Point is, YOU might not be able to get it there, but there are plenty of manufacturers that can. The 357 is more than capable.

Uncle Duke · Aug 10, 2020

I have long wondered with some of the Buffalo Bore and similar loads that are really stepping, but are supposedly within allowable pressure specs, if they're using a proprietary powder.

SlugCaster · Aug 11, 2020

Bisleyfan44 said:
So at the risk of offending you with factory ammo choices that ACTUALLY DO EXCEED 700ft/lbs:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=100

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=102

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=541

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=278

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...ad-flat-nose-gas-check?variant=18785707851833

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...-jacketed-hollow-point?variant=18816361398329

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...-jacketed-hollow-point?variant=18785727021113

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...-jacketed-hollow-point?variant=18785727086649

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...rain-xtreme-penetrator?variant=18785701068857

https://doubletapammo.com/collections/357-magnum/products/357-mag-158gr-bonded-defensea-jhp-20rds

https://doubletapammo.com/collectio...57-mag-158gr-controlled-expansion-a-jhp-20rds

https://doubletapammo.com/collections/357-magnum/products/357-mag-180gr-hardcast-solid-a-20rds

https://doubletapammo.com/collections/357-magnum/products/357-mag-200gr-hardcast-solid-a-20rds

https://www.grizzlycartridge.com/sh...tion/handgun/revolver/357-magnum-180gr-wfngc/

https://www.grizzlycartridge.com/sh...tion/handgun/revolver/357-magnum-200gr-wlngc/

https://pmcammo.com/product/bronze-357a/

https://ppu-usa.com/ppu/357-magnum-defense/

And I probably missed some. Point is, YOU might not be able to get it there, but there are plenty of manufacturers that can. The 357 is more than capable.

you do of course realize that all of those links refer you back to ammo that is stating the 700+ foot pounds are using a 125 grain bullet for a 6 inch barrel right? some of them dont even mention the foot pounds. i'm not looking for arguments but i just cant seem to find anyone who can show any 158 grain ammo that will exceed 700 foot pounds for a 6 inch barrel.

alucard0822 · Aug 11, 2020

I've topped 1300FPS with a 158gr XTP from my 4" 686 with H110 under max, so it's possible with a hot charge from a 6" +, but depending on all the factors it's close either way. Some factory loads claim to hit that. Haven't seen DNR chrono loads, but would probably opt for a box of Underwood with their "claimed" velocity/FPE data on the box to keep out of trouble if someone wanted to give you a hard time. Otherwise try H110, and let us know what you can get to with a max load.

John from MD · Aug 11, 2020

Uncle Duke said:
I have long wondered with some of the Buffalo Bore and similar loads that are really stepping, but are supposedly within allowable pressure specs, if they're using a proprietary powder.

They are. They use non canister powder developed for them which is checked each time they make a lot.

Boats · Aug 11, 2020

125 or 115 gr

Uncle Duke · Aug 11, 2020

John from MD said:
They are. They use non canister powder developed for them which is checked each time they make a lot.

Makes sense. Appreciate the confirmation.

Pale Ryder · Aug 11, 2020

Use 170-180 grain. 5 inch test barrel generated enough velocity, so a 6 or 8” should be fine. Or bump up to 10mm, 41, or 44 Mag. It’s not that Hard.

Bisleyfan44 · Aug 11, 2020

SlugCaster said:
you do of course realize that all of those links refer you back to ammo that is stating the 700+ foot pounds are using a 125 grain bullet for a 6 inch barrel right? some of them dont even mention the foot pounds. i'm not looking for arguments but i just cant seem to find anyone who can show any 158 grain ammo that will exceed 700 foot pounds for a 6 inch barrel.

Dude, look above it! Their 158 grain load goes 1457 fps in a 5" barrel S&W! That's 745 ft/lbs before you add an inch of barrel.
IT WILL DO MORE IN A 6"!!
Damn!! :sad20:

Yes, look at the details.
Oh, and you're welcome!

Bisleyfan44 · Aug 11, 2020

Bisleyfan44 said:
Factory ammo choices that ACTUALLY DO EXCEED 700ft/lbs:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=102

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...-jacketed-hollow-point?variant=18816361398329

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...-jacketed-hollow-point?variant=18785727021113

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...-jacketed-hollow-point?variant=18785727086649

https://doubletapammo.com/collections/357-magnum/products/357-mag-158gr-bonded-defensea-jhp-20rds

https://doubletapammo.com/collectio...57-mag-158gr-controlled-expansion-a-jhp-20rds

https://pmcammo.com/product/bronze-357a/

https://ppu-usa.com/ppu/357-magnum-defense/

So, in all fairness I did include other grain weights in my original post. I do apologize for not sticking to the 158-grain loads you requested. These are the 158-grain loads that will meet the 700 ft/lb requirement as stated by the factory in their advertising and literature.

Qbeam · Aug 11, 2020

Bisleyfan44 said:
So, in all fairness I did include other grain weights in my original post. I do apologize for not sticking to the 158-grain loads you requested. These are the 158-grain loads that will meet the 700 ft/lb requirement as stated by the factory in their advertising and literature.

Bisley,

This has the beginnings of another 3% thread......... let them keep trying. People are trying to help show it is possible, but they want someone to put up a specific loading.

Q

Park ranger · Aug 11, 2020

And yet he hasn't talked about his experience. In my other thread we tend to agree I have a slow gun and it might not make it. Elmer Keith did it just fine. Hes a troll.

Tebonski · Aug 11, 2020

Do DNR cops carry bullet pullers and chronographs? Anyone experience that?

Park ranger · Aug 11, 2020

Tebonski said:
Do DNR cops carry bullet pullers and chronographs? Anyone experience that?

Hell no.

357 magnum got to beat 700 foot pounds

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