Firearms Dealers Who Won't Release on 8th Day

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  • Bertfish

    Throw bread on me
    Mar 13, 2013
    17,606
    White Marsh, MD
    I'd like to (tangentially) tack on that Freestate is operating their range by appointment only. I get it trying to limit capacity. What is nonsensical is they won't let my wife and I share a lane; we live together. I cancelled the appointment.
     

    DontTreadOnMe

    Active Member
    Dec 10, 2016
    638
    Frustration understood. But, I can’t help but put myself in the LGS’s shoes, and wonder if they’re thinking, “If I cross the MSP, will this be the end of my store?”

    Easy for us to say that legally guns should be released on day 8, but I don’t trust Annapolis or MSP, and who’s to say they don’t drop the hammer on these LGS later on, even if the LGS wasn’t wrong?
     

    babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,017
    Glenelg
    agreed but

    Frustration understood. But, I can’t help but put myself in the LGS’s shoes, and wonder if they’re thinking, “If I cross the MSP, will this be the end of my store?”

    Easy for us to say that legally guns should be released on day 8, but I don’t trust Annapolis or MSP, and who’s to say they don’t drop the hammer on these LGS later on, even if the LGS wasn’t wrong?

    not the way it is supposed to work.
     

    Skipjacks

    Ultimate Member
    Frustration understood. But, I can’t help but put myself in the LGS’s shoes, and wonder if they’re thinking, “If I cross the MSP, will this be the end of my store?”

    Easy for us to say that legally guns should be released on day 8, but I don’t trust Annapolis or MSP, and who’s to say they don’t drop the hammer on these LGS later on, even if the LGS wasn’t wrong?

    I agree

    The LGS is in an impossible position here

    If they don't follow the law the customer is pissed off at them

    If they do follow the law the odds are good that the state that is supposed to enforce the law will screw them over hard core for following the law

    I find it hard to be mad at the LGS for being caught in that situation. They don't want to withhold your purchase. They like the 2nd Amendment. But they will probably get raked over the coals if they they give it to you

    Instead of being mad at the LGS be mad at the MSP and the idiots in Annapolis who wrote the stupid laws
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,531
    Columbia
    I understand the "heartburn". LGS are evaluating risk/reward here. With MD and MDSP and MGA overt hostility towards gunowners in their eyes they are trying to "protect" their business. Is it "right", no, is it "wrong" i don't believe so.


    Protect what? Release on the 8th day is IN THE LAW.
    They are no more liable for that then someone who goes out and buys a long gun and passes the NICS check and then uses the gun for illegal purposes.
    Since these people already have an HQL, they’ve already been vetted.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Skipjacks

    Ultimate Member
    Protect what? Release on the 8th day is IN THE LAW.
    They are no more liable for that then someone who goes out and buys a long gun and passes the NICS check and then uses the gun for illegal purposes.
    Since these people already have an HQL, they’ve already been vetted.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Since when does following the law protect anyone in Maryland where firearms are concerned?
     

    ComeGet

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 1, 2015
    5,911
    I agree

    The LGS is in an impossible position here

    If they don't follow the law the customer is pissed off at them

    If they do follow the law the odds are good that the state that is supposed to enforce the law will screw them over hard core for following the law

    I find it hard to be mad at the LGS for being caught in that situation. They don't want to withhold your purchase. They like the 2nd Amendment. But they will probably get raked over the coals if they they give it to you

    Instead of being mad at the LGS be mad at the MSP and the idiots in Annapolis who wrote the stupid laws

    Just curious, when we went through this before, did the LGSs that did release on the 8th day face any repercussion from MSP?
     

    cms81586

    Member
    Feb 8, 2018
    34
    The dealers aren't the ones to blame here. The state is the problem. I can't blame shops for not wanting to take on the liability of releasing firearms against MSPs wishes.

    This is the mentality that makes it quite obvious why MD is in its current predicament. Even statist MSP has outright said while they prefer FFL’s hold onto firearms and not conduct transfers, FFL’s legally can proceed. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.
     

    cms81586

    Member
    Feb 8, 2018
    34
    Protect what? Release on the 8th day is IN THE LAW.
    They are no more liable for that then someone who goes out and buys a long gun and passes the NICS check and then uses the gun for illegal purposes.
    Since these people already have an HQL, they’ve already been vetted.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Not to mention MSP background checks are just redundant to NCIC checks.
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,462
    MoCo
    Just curious, when we went through this before, did the LGSs that did release on the 8th day face any repercussion from MSP?

    I'll wager that the answer to your question depends on whether or not a gun released on the 8th day without a "NOT DISAPPROVED" from MSP was used in a crime.
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,009
    Harford County
    I'll wager that the answer to your question depends on whether or not a gun released on the 8th day without a "NOT DISAPPROVED" from MSP was used in a crime.

    And the only situation where it would make any difference would be where someone became prohibited AFTER they got their HQL. I can't imagine that's a very long list...
     

    Kaiju

    Member
    Mar 2, 2013
    19
    And the only situation where it would make any difference would be where someone became prohibited AFTER they got their HQL. I can't imagine that's a very long list...

    Ya, this is what grinds my gears to most. Especially if its a recently granted HQL, like I imagine many of these are.
     

    blueharford

    Member
    May 6, 2020
    60
    Harford County, MD
    Two thirds of the first-time gun buyers voted for the tools who subsequently screwed them out of their 2A rights. It's only proper that they should be educated in the ways of the MD GA legislators in this way; it may open a few minds.

    I've pretty much run out of sympathy for the MD Dem voters. Let them eat the same shit sandwich they've fed us.

    we're a blue state but we have a republican gov. for the last two terms... so it being Dems is BS, the gov could address or take action if he wanted, and hes not
     

    HiStandards

    Active Member
    Aug 1, 2017
    571
    Anne Arundel Co
    Here's what I remember. Someone will obviously correct me: Many years ago, well before 2013, the MSP was running routinely 15 days for "Not Disapproved". They were also leaning on dealers that life would be tougher if they released in accordance with the law. Some dealer got fed up and started releasing. The SUN got word and spun it around, "The poor MSP is underfunded and overworked and just trying to keep us safe. Now this gunshop is letting criminals have guns." I recall a lawsuit, that got dismissed when the MSP promised to speed up the process.
    Since the current advisory gives detailed instructions on how to release on time, I don't see how the LGS could be yanked around too much. But I'm not a dealer and it doesn't affect my bottom line.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Yes, there are a number of Maryland Only disqualifiers . We had a recent thread here from someone who registered his handguns upon moving in get cought up by this .

    Flashback 2013 - MSP LD threatened in person dealers that if they did " Timely Release " , they would audit them continually until they found a minor tranposition , and imeadately revoke their RWDL .

    MSI sued , and MSP pre trial settled by issuing a letter that the practice Was Legal , and that they would not retaliate for following the law .

    But that was then , and now is ???
     

    Bullfrog

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 8, 2009
    15,156
    Carroll County
    I agree

    The LGS is in an impossible position here

    If they don't follow the law the customer is pissed off at them

    If they do follow the law the odds are good that the state that is supposed to enforce the law will screw them over hard core for following the law

    I find it hard to be mad at the LGS for being caught in that situation. They don't want to withhold your purchase. They like the 2nd Amendment. But they will probably get raked over the coals if they they give it to you

    Instead of being mad at the LGS be mad at the MSP and the idiots in Annapolis who wrote the stupid laws


    There were some LGSs in 2013 who found a middle ground between releasing after 8 days based on no response, and waiting forever to hear from MSP. They came up with reasonable criteria that provided evidence you were likely not a prohibited person.

    Things like showing a receipt for a firearm purchase within a certain amount of time (say, last 6 mo, or 1 year); recently issued designated collector letter; having a CC permit from MD or another state; or having an active duty military ID.

    The first three would show you had passed a background check, the last would show you had not recently been convicted of a felony level offense (since if so, you would be in custody, having surrendered your ID, or had already received punishment and been outprocessed from the military with DD or other-than-honorable and would not possess an ID).
     

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