Visit by Homeland Security yesterday for... a scope purchase?

Fox123 said:

OP, you say you are business owner, what is the business you own/industry you are in?

Click to expand...

Owner operator of a exterior restoration/cleaning business for both residential and commercial, now in my 10th year
Nothing exciting enough for visits from the feds lol

Rob R. said:

Thanks, I am also dumbfounded by the reasoning.. buying 4 scopes and 2 red dots in all of 2017 would have 1,000’s of visits all over the country. I’ve bought some on eBay and some from brownells.
I didn’t even think much into it as shortly after I went downtown to have dinner with friends. Today I thought more of it and what else may have triggered it? Maybe the 12-13 firearms and ammo purchases related to them all in 2017? I don’t know, regardless no laws were broken..
After seeing responses here next time I think it’s best I call my lawyer and remain outside.

Click to expand...

Maybe their computer systems flagged your purchases as a pattern of interest. The reason they gave for the visit could have been a tall story designed to put you at ease so they could fish for information to nail you with. Maybe it's the start of a new campaign to harass and intimidate lawful gun owners who are the most active buyers. Don't take anything for granted. For certain, they are not your friend and are not looking out for you.

BrewDoc_MD said:

yep, ebay clearly states that they "work closely" with multiple federal alphabet agencies. From ebay.policies/military-items:

Click to expand...

Midway USA probably has the same disclaimer buried somewhere in their user agreement. As well as hundreds of other sites.

How does buying and selling scopes in the US trigger an ITAR visit? It's not like the OP was shipping a scope to:

Mohamed Mohamed
556 Snack Bar Blvd.
Goathumpistan Province
76254

Boom Boom said:

Maybe their computer systems flagged your purchases as a pattern of interest. The reason they gave for the visit could have been a tall story designed to put you at ease so they could fish for information to nail you with. Maybe it's the start of a new campaign to harass and intimidate lawful gun owners who are the most active buyers. Don't take anything for granted. For certain, they are not your friend and are not looking out for you.

Click to expand...

My take as well. They needed to gain access to the home.

To see if there were zillions of packages with overseas addresses on them.

Them having a jovial conversation with the OP about annoying gun laws was a nice touch though.

iH8DemLibz said:

How does buying and selling scopes in the US trigger an ITAR visit?

Click to expand...

Exactly. It doesn't and wouldn't unless the OP is in the habit of shipping things internationally. Almost guaranteed the people at his door were there for an unstated reason.

Boom Boom said:

Maybe their computer systems flagged your purchases as a pattern of interest. The reason they gave for the visit could have been a tall story designed to put you at ease so they could fish for information to nail you with. Maybe it's the start of a new campaign to harass and intimidate lawful gun owners who are the most active buyers. Don't take anything for granted. For certain, they are not your friend and are not looking out for you.

Click to expand...

Agreed I tried making sense of it at first and went along with it. As I thought more into it, is when I begin to wonder if it was just a story to get more info on other matters which baffles me because it never seemed to be of their interest? Just said they had tracking of the scope (appeared to a blown up picture of the shipping label in his folder and told me it was expected delivery tomorrow aka today the 13th by end of day
Either way I’m just as confused as everyone else, looking to buy 5-6 more guns in 2018 along with a 2 rimfire 1 9mm and 1 30 cal can, with another 3-4 optics while selling 1-2 of each off so maybe I’ll get another knock at the door by 2019 ?

BrewDoc_MD said:

yep, ebay clearly states that they "work closely" with multiple federal alphabet agencies. From ebay.policies/military-items:

Click to expand...

True, but a sale that originated and terminated within the US should not have intentionally raised a red flag per say, particularly when the item was not of the thermal or Night vision variety. This seems like a fishing trip on behalf of an over zealous investigation/agency.

Perhaps someone else who bought from the same seller was involved in the smuggling conspiracy got pinched and they just decided to follow up and question everyone who purchased from that particular seller.

Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk

It could be completely a seller issue and has nothing to do with you. They might have just cleared you from the seller as a random purchaser.

DubTap21 said:

Perhaps someone else who bought from the same seller was involved in the smuggling conspiracy got pinched and they just decided to follow up and question everyone who purchased from that particular seller.

Click to expand...

Yep, that's what I'd put my money on if I were a betting man.

Rob R. said:

Agreed I tried making sense of it at first and went along with it. As I thought more into it, is when I begin to wonder if it was just a story to get more info on other matters which baffles me because it never seemed to be of their interest? Just said they had tracking of the scope (appeared to a blown up picture of the shipping label in his folder and told me it was expected delivery tomorrow aka today the 13th by end of day
Either way I’m just as confused as everyone else, looking to buy 5-6 more guns in 2018 along with a 2 rimfire 1 9mm and 1 30 cal can, with another 3-4 optics while selling 1-2 of each off so maybe I’ll get another knock at the door by 2019 ?

Click to expand...

Well, if they show up again, just ask them politely to leave. If they won't, call 911. It's not lying to say somebody's at your door claiming to be DHS but it doesn't seem legitimate. Will get an immediate police response. Regardless, don't let it alter your buying. If they start harassing you, start filming them and contact a lawyer and the media.

iH8DemLibz said:

Midway USA probably has the same disclaimer buried somewhere in their user agreement. As well as hundreds of other sites.

How does buying and selling scopes in the US trigger an ITAR visit? It's not like the OP was shipping a scope to:

Mohamed Mohamed
556 Snack Bar Blvd.
Goathumpistan Province
76254

Click to expand...

Exactly if I did this would all make a lot more sense

iH8DemLibz said:

My take as well. They needed to gain access to the home.

To see if there were zillions of packages with overseas addresses on them.

Them having a jovial conversation with the OP about annoying gun laws was a nice touch though.

Click to expand...

I guess it was more me than them having friendly convo, just seemed like two honest “gun guys” that I’d have a beer with. Just doing their job or could just be an act I don’t know. The one agent said he liked watching YouTube videos by Hickok45 down in Kentucky and said he is always given the run around when transferring a gun, said it was a hassle buying his sig last time at a FFL in regards to mag capacity or wait time something to that effect?

Boom Boom said:

Exactly. It doesn't and wouldn't unless the OP is in the habit of shipping things internationally. Almost guaranteed the people at his door were there for an unstated reason.

Click to expand...

I shipped a few items internationally several years ago it’s a pain and I don’t bother anymore with customs forms and excessive shipping prices plus trusting a foreign buyer/fraud. Which were just random car parts that can be found much cheaper here stateside than in their home country

Rob R. said:

Owner operator of a exterior restoration/cleaning business for both residential and commercial, now in my 10th year
Nothing exciting enough for visits from the feds lol

Click to expand...

Well, if they visit me, we'll know it's the common CZ purchase. But seriously, thanks for sharing and glad it turned out with them putatively explaining their actions. FWIW, I've had a couple odd experiences shipping gun related items (e.g. like a Kydex holster) through USPS that made me think that it was pulled aside for inspection (several week delays in a priority mail shipment - with the post office providing evasive answers as to why).

Boom Boom said:

Maybe their computer systems flagged your purchases as a pattern of interest. The reason they gave for the visit could have been a tall story designed to put you at ease so they could fish for information to nail you with. Maybe it's the start of a new campaign to harass and intimidate lawful gun owners who are the most active buyers. Don't take anything for granted. For certain, they are not your friend and are not looking out for you.

Click to expand...

In addition to foreign threats, I wouldn't be surprised if they're spitballing how to stop the next Stephen Paddock. If so, we might learn of more visits to gun owners that have been actively purchasing this year and last.

FPL53 said:

It could be completely a seller issue and has nothing to do with you. They might have just cleared you from the seller as a random purchaser.

Click to expand...

That would make the most sense ... if they're tracking what this seller is doing (through the help of EBay) ... then they're running down potential leads.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

BrewDoc_MD said:

Yep, that's what I'd put my money on if I were a betting man.

Click to expand...

Boom Boom said:

Well, if they show up again, just ask them politely to leave. If they won't, call 911. It's not lying to say somebody's at your door claiming to be DHS but it doesn't seem legitimate. Will get an immediate police response. Regardless, don't let it alter your buying. If they start harassing you, start filming them and contact a lawyer and the media.

Click to expand...

Absolutely, this.

Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk

DubTap21 said:

True, but a sale that originated and terminated within the US should not have intentionally raised a red flag per say, particularly when the item was not of the thermal or Night vision variety. This seems like a fishing trip on behalf of an over zealous investigation/agency.

Perhaps someone else who bought from the same seller was involved in the smuggling conspiracy got pinched and they just decided to follow up and question everyone who purchased from that particular seller.

Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

My instincts settled with that right away, plus I don’t think Sig scopes would make the list of popular ISIS or other terrorist groups optic of choice?

FPL53 said:

It could be completely a seller issue and has nothing to do with you. They might have just cleared you from the seller as a random purchaser.

Click to expand...

Hope so long drive from VA for one of the 2 agents to drive all the way here in Harford Co other is at the Baltimore office

Boom Boom said:

Well, if they show up again, just ask them politely to leave. If they won't, call 911. It's not lying to say somebody's at your door claiming to be DHS but it doesn't seem legitimate. Will get an immediate police response. Regardless, don't let it alter your buying. If they start harassing you, start filming them and contact a lawyer and the media.

Click to expand...

1000% will not alter buying for me lol. I’d buy more if other priorities did not exist this year.
Social media will be a very big portal this year beyond just business, I didn’t event think of that but surely a good way to keep everyone honest if video/audio is rolling

fidelity said:

Well, if they visit me, we'll know it's the common CZ purchase. But seriously, thanks for sharing and glad it turned out with them putatively explaining their actions. FWIW, I've had a couple odd experiences shipping gun related items (e.g. like a Kydex holster) through USPS that made me think that it was pulled aside for inspection (several week delays in a priority mail shipment - with the post office providing evasive answers as to why).
In addition to foreign threats, I wouldn't be surprised if they're spitballing how to stop the next Stephen Paddock. If so, we might learn of more visits to gun owners that have been actively purchasing this year and last.
That would make the most sense ... if they're tracking what this seller is doing (through the help of EBay) ... then they're running down potential leads.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Now this makes much more sense.

Better than the DHS duo mentioning international scope shipments.


PS: It's an astronomically huge coincidence that the OP bought a Sig scope and the DHS guy had a problem buying a Sig handgun. Be careful, OP. Day was workin' ya.

Rob R. said:

Exactly if I did this would all make a lot more sense



I guess it was more me than them having friendly convo, just seemed like two honest “gun guys” that I’d have a beer with. Just doing their job or could just be an act I don’t know. The one agent said he liked watching YouTube videos by Hickok45 down in Kentucky and said he is always given the run around when transferring a gun, said it was a hassle buying his sig last time at a FFL in regards to mag capacity or wait time something to that effect?

Click to expand...

Okay, the Hickok45 comment by the agent really bothers me. Everyone who watches his channel knows that he is in Tennessee.

Also, why would a federal agent have a problem buying a Sig with what I'm assuming had standard capacity mags included? He was working you for sure, as stated by iH8 above.



Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk

fidelity said:

Well, if they visit me, we'll know it's the common CZ purchase. But seriously, thanks for sharing and glad it turned out with them putatively explaining their actions. FWIW, I've had a couple odd experiences shipping gun related items (e.g. like a Kydex holster) through USPS that made me think that it was pulled aside for inspection (several week delays in a priority mail shipment - with the post office providing evasive answers as to why).
In addition to foreign threats, I wouldn't be surprised if they're spitballing how to stop the next Stephen Paddock. If so, we might learn of more visits to gun owners that have been actively purchasing this year and last.
That would make the most sense ... if they're tracking what this seller is doing (through the help of EBay) ... then they're running down potential leads.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

The LV situation def came to mind, again it’s the times we are in. I’m sure if I bought 50 scopes and rifles a decade ago no one would bat an eye but that’s just not the case with current events.
Might just be me but if you buy more than say 10 firearms in a year particularly regulated Rifles you are likely being focused on. Real shame but if someone does something stupid it will just rally the anti’s about how the agency’s are failing to protect the people and “they should have known”

I’ve always loved guns and anything outdoors but like many delayed bothering with it because I needed a stupid HQL, fingerprints, background, class that needed reservation well in advance. I was out of the loop and seemed like a part time job being told it would be a 2-3 month process to even buy a damn handgun plus 7 day wait etc.. I have friends and family that want to be gun owners but put off by this obstacle from a time and/or money perspective (understandably).
When Hillary was the landslide favorite to win in certain times of the presidential campaign I knew I needed to get on the ball.. I bought the first few firearms I wanted for many years the stereotypical (glock AR15 etc) after that it was an addiction of getting one of everything rimfire rifle and handgun, 1911, micro compact, DA/SA, 9mm sub etc etc doesn’t help my bank account that I found out about CZ’s lmao
Ultimately my 2017 buying spree can be attributed to Hillary, as it stands today she might be the greatest gun salesman to ever walk the earth, heard she’s also good at selling uranium too!

Just a heads up I told both agents you were the other guy with that scary wooden CZ rifle capable of shooting a 17hmr well over 2000fps and hitting the pubes off a not so endowed cricket over 200yds away. Also may have mentioned you like taking pictures of your new rifle next to your Qu’ran (or however it’s spelt) not doing a spellcheck on google at this point time for good reason lmao.. Welcome to the fed watchlist my fellow CZ amigo!
Probably shouldn’t joke about this but gotta make light of a odd situation

DubTap21 said:

Okay, the Hickok45 comment by the agent really bothers me. Everyone who watches his channel knows that he is in Tennessee.

Also, why would a federal agent have a problem buying a Sig with what I'm assuming had standard capacity mags included? He was working you for sure, as stated by iH8 above.



Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Agent actually said the older guy in Kentucky which my instinct was “Hickok” and he said yea that’s him. I honestly thought he was in Kentucky myself..Def not one of my top YT choices, just my observation his opinions at times are swindled heavily for dollars like many others, that and repeatedly backing the NRA which he is on payroll with kinda killed my desire to watch his stuff anymore.. anyone who says old guy>down south>gun reviews >Youtube it’s point blank Hickok45 next up would be sootch maybe (but he’s in Carolina?)

Rob R. said:

Agent actually said the older guy in Kentucky which my instinct was “Hickok” and he said yea that’s him. I honestly thought he was in Kentucky myself..Def not one of my top YT choices, just my observation his opinions at times are swindled heavily for dollars like many others, that and repeatedly backing the NRA which he is on payroll with kinda killed my desire to watch his stuff anymore.. anyone who says old guy>down south>gun reviews >Youtube it’s point blank Hickok45 next up would be sootch maybe (but he’s in Carolina?)

Click to expand...

I like Hickok, but agreed, he needs to get off the NRA's *cock! Sootch is in South Carolina.

Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk

Rob R. said:

...
Just a heads up I told both agents you were the other guy with that scary wooden CZ rifle capable of shooting a 17hmr well over 2000fps and hitting the pubes off a not so endowed cricket over 200yds away. Also may have mentioned you like taking pictures of your new rifle next to your Qu’ran (or however it’s spelt) not doing a spellcheck on google at this point time for good reason lmao.. Welcome to the fed watchlist my fellow CZ amigo!
Probably shouldn’t joke about this but gotta make light of a odd situation

Click to expand...

Omg, if they discover how much match grade 22 LR that I've been amassing recently to use in that scary CZ (I've bought a little 17 HMR too ), they might send three agents, lol.

On the other hand, I do have a scope that's been delayed midway during shipment ...


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk