Possession of a handgun in Baltimore could soon come with one year mandatory prison

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  • Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,986
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    What happens if we get shall issue and you accidentally carry into a school zone or park or other prohibited area and end up facing a mandatory minimum?


    Good catch, I was about to edit my post.


    For the sake of discussion permit holders would be exempt from these GFZ.
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,157
    Good catch, I was about to edit my post.


    For the sake of discussion permit holders would be exempt from these GFZ.

    If you're asking would I trade shall issue for mandatory minimums I think I'd say yes. I'm personally a little phobic about going to prison though. It's probably my biggest irrational fear and the idea of somehow crossing a line that lands me in a prison cell with no hope of fighting it freaks me out a little.
     

    lonewolf220

    Member
    Oct 10, 2014
    49
    Hampstead
    I think the argument was that because illegal possession is not a felony, those caught are just released. But this "fix" is way too broad. Judges should always have discretion with sentencing based on circumstances.

    I'm surprised with all the other laws that possession by a prohibited individual wasn't already a felony. And if it isn't, that seems like a pretty big thing to miss when they passed the FSA.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,690
    Try to find a route through Baltimore that doesn't involve coming within 100 yards of a park, church, school, public building, or other place of public assembly (whatever that might mean).

    Misdemeanor, mandatory jail for a year, mandatory fine of $1000. Each violation is a separate offense.

    Live in Baltimore? Going to the range? Actually, maybe jail instead. Drive carefully.
     

    Brychan

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 24, 2009
    8,391
    Baltimore
    Just another blame the tool, not the criminal. It's the whole if we can get illegal guns off the streets, there will be peace and happiness for all. The mayor and her pet police chief ignore the stabbings and blunt trauma murders. It's all illegal guns and a handful of trigger pullers
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,855
    Unless someone can show how they are going to get around the preemption law, this is dead on arrival.
     

    lonewolf220

    Member
    Oct 10, 2014
    49
    Hampstead
    The mayor says that the attorney general says the law is constitutional. But that's not surprising the way he treats every other gun restriction.

    http://www.wbal.com/article/251861/...andatory-jail-for-most-illegal-gun-possession

    Unless someone can show how they are going to get around the preemption law, this is dead on arrival.
    They are trying to get something passed at the state level. Pugh claims that Hogan may be open to a law that just applies to the city. Saying "he didn't rule it out". But I haven't seen an official statement from the governor so who knows.

    https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimo...imore-gun-laws-will-put-the-right-people.html
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    JULY 14, 2017
    The Baltimore City Council unveiled a draft copy of a new gun bill which would apply to Baltimore City ONLY. If the bill passes, persons convicted of possessing a handgun in Baltimore City, without a permit to wear and carry a handgun, will be subject to a mandatory 1 year prison sentence AND and $1,000 fine. The court would not be permitted to suspend any part of the penalty nor could it give probation before judgement. Persons convicted would not be eligible for parole. As written, the proposed bill could violate Maryland preemption statute.
    Click here for the article: http://www.wbaltv.com/article/city-...-sentences-on-illegal-gun-possession/10306811

    Click here for the draft text of the bill and supporting document.

    In a related story, Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee Chairman, Bobby Zirkin indicated that he might support a statewide minimum 5 year sentence for persons convicted a second time for for carrying a handgun without a permit to wear and carry a handgun.

    I am not so sure it violates Crim Law Section 4-109 (the preemption statute). By it terms, that section allows the city to regulate possession in limited circumstances, viz:
    b)(1) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may regulate the purchase, sale, transfer, ownership, possession, and transportation of the items listed in subsection (a) of this section:
    (i) with respect to minors;
    (ii) with respect to law enforcement officials of the subdivision; and
    (iii) except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, within 100 yards of or in a park, church, school, public building, and other place of public assembly.

    The bill as I read it is limited to possession in the areas specified in (iii). The bill also exempts from its coverage the exceptions in 4-203(b) (including permit holders).

    So it would impose min sentences on a very limited class of offenders. I tend to doubt it will have much effect, seeing how the BPD can't seem to make lawful Terry stops and even when they have a good bust, the State's Attorney doesn't prosecute (or plea bargains).
     
    Last edited:

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    If this only applies to areas within 100 yds of a park, church, school, public building, and other place of public assembly, the effect is mostly nil IMO.

    It also does not solve the fundamental problem of prosecutors deciding not to prosecute.

    I would probably be against this unless they allow law abiding residents to get permits and eliminate G&S. Seems like a compromise deal could be had here at the state level - eliminate G&S, while tightening up penalties. Unfortunately, MD assembly is driven by a devotion to failed ideology not common sense.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Try to find a route through Baltimore that doesn't involve coming within 100 yards of a park, church, school, public building, or other place of public assembly (whatever that might mean).

    Misdemeanor, mandatory jail for a year, mandatory fine of $1000. Each violation is a separate offense.

    Live in Baltimore? Going to the range? Actually, maybe jail instead. Drive carefully.

    If you read the article, the exemptions include everything under Section 4-203(b)

    So if you have a wear and carry permit or are legally transporting under the current exceptions of to a range, between your residences, etc. you'd be exempted from the law. Basically this just adds a 1 year mandatory minimum sentence if you were ALREADY breaking the law in regards to handgun carrying/transporting and also happened to be within 100yds of a school, church, etc.

    So I wouldn't be to scared of the law. However, I don't know that this is needed. What is needed is actually going after the actual bad guys instead of patting them on the head and asking them to be good boys and girls.

    Mandatory minimums often are a bad thing. Judges and prosecutors who actually use reason descretion are what is needed (not these stupid A-holes who let rapists off on a few months probabtion or repeat violent offenders with a sad little year in prison. We also don't need some guy carrying just over the minimum of weed over state lines charged as a dealer and put away for 20 years minimum).
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    And if you are convicted, you still are not prohibited. The possible sentence must be more than a year.
    .
     

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    frogman68

    товарищ плачевная
    Apr 7, 2013
    8,774
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    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    Anyone going to talk about the actual problem that makes people feel this law is necessary? The courts completely failing in their responsibility to actually punish criminals. Whenever there's a serious crime in Baltimore, just pull up the criminal history. Criminals are being slapped on the wrist and sent back out. The people of Baltimore need to start holding our judicial system accountable. It doesn't matter what laws exist or how good the police are at catching criminals if the courts are just going to dump thedm back on the street.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    And if you are convicted, you still are not prohibited. The possible sentence must be more than a year.
    .

    Well, if you are carrying in the manner addressed in this ordinance, you are undoubtedly in violation as well of Criminal Law Section 4-203, a violation of which is punishable by up to 3 years. That's a permanent disqualification.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Anyone going to talk about the actual problem that makes people feel this law is necessary? The courts completely failing in their responsibility to actually punish criminals. Whenever there's a serious crime in Baltimore, just pull up the criminal history. Criminals are being slapped on the wrist and sent back out. The people of Baltimore need to start holding our judicial system accountable. It doesn't matter what laws exist or how good the police are at catching criminals if the courts are just going to dump thedm back on the street.

    It's not simply the courts. The prosecutors are not prosecuting.

    But let's face reality... if you were on a jury where some person was accused of carrying a weapon without a permit, on a dangerous street at night, would you convict (assuming there was no other nefarious intent)?

    Heck no!

    The reality is that changing mandatory minimums will only work if there is a streamlined process to get a permit (eliminate G&S). That way there is no excuse for failing to get a permit.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,173
    Outside the Gates
    Well, if you are carrying in the manner addressed in this ordinance, you are undoubtedly in violation as well of Criminal Law Section 4-203, a violation of which is punishable by up to 3 years. That's a permanent disqualification.

    That is the way I read it too. This law is unnecessary fluff.
     

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