pistol malfunction drill questions

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    travistheone

    travistheone

    Usual Suspect
    Dec 11, 2008
    5,600
    cockeysville
    when attempting to correct a malfunction you have many choices.

    question is- how do you handle the need to differentiate between stovepipes and FTE/FTF?

    one malfunction typically requires a mag to be removed while the other typically just requires a tap/rack.

    I have even seen a video instructing shooter to remove stovepipe with their finger...


    What say ye?

    what do you do and why?

    If you remove mag for stove pipes, how do you instantly recognize the need for something more than tap/rack? Are there any shooters who always drop/rack/insert?
     
    Blaster229

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,594
    Glen Burnie
    Never, ever in the 100's of thousands of rounds I've fired have I ever had an actual realtime stovepipe.

    My drill is either tap, rack or tap, lock back, dump whatever is in there and bang. I'm not dumping a near full mag if I don't have to. Most of the FTFs I've had were not actual FTFs, but me not having remembered to rack or riding the slide lock and have an empty battery. click,click, click, mag change, rack slide and bang. This has been part of my shooting ritual for so long now, it's second nature and I am pretty damn quick with it.
     
    travistheone

    travistheone

    Usual Suspect
    Dec 11, 2008
    5,600
    cockeysville
    Blaster229 said:
    Never, ever in the 100's of thousands of rounds I've fired have I ever had an actual realtime stovepipe.

    My drill is either tap, rack or tap, lock back, dump whatever is in there and bang. I'm not dumping a near full mag if I don't have to. Most of the FTFs I've had were not actual FTFs, but me not having remembered to rack or riding the slide lock and have an empty battery. click,click, click, mag change, rack slide and bang. This has been part of my shooting ritual for so long now, it's second nature and I am pretty damn quick with it.
    Click to expand...

    Makes sense.

    I should clarify that I do not mean dump the mag, instead remove and control the mag with weak hand while racking out any junk.

    Clarify that you treat almost every closed slide malfunction the same, tap rack.
    At least for the first "click". If tap rack doesn't work, time for a mag change.
     
    N

    niftyvt

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 21, 2010
    1,891
    Virginia
    Stove pipes are easy to clear and easy to diagnose for a handgun. There either is or isn't a big piece of brass sticking out of the gun blocking your vision. I just sweep them out with my support hand then bang. Anything else is a tap-rack-bang. If it doesn't bang then on to other things, usually I can tell when I do the rack step if more is needed, then its lock back-strip mag-rack until clear-re insert new mag (if I have one)-then bang. If the racks are not doing anything, which I can usually tell after the first or second rack, its time to lock back and finger the gun until all the bits that are in the way get out of the way, then insert and go. If its a shooting match I stop and get it done (rules permitting) if its defensive practice/training it involves running/moving around things while doing the steps. Being able to 'just tell' if more is needed during the rack part of the tap-rack-bang is all experience and feel from doing drills over and over and over again.

    If its a case that's hard stuck in the chamber, well, that's just a bad day if you are talking a defensive scenario. If its a range day then I stop, take the gun apart and tap it out with a wooden dowel or cleaning rod segment. The hard stuck case I cannot diagnose through feel alone. But I can see it when I do the lock back-strip-rack-re insert-bang process but it is visually indiscernible from a standard failure to extract. So, after the malfunction is cleared if its a hard stuck vs regular failure to extract then the racks wont do anything to fix it and you are stuck with the wooden dowel/cleaning rod option.

    If I cant really see what I am doing (dark, running flat out and need all my focus on where I am going and whats going on around me etc) then I go instantly to the tap-rack-bang, then to the lock back-strip-insert new mag-go if the old tap-rack-bang doesn't work the first time.
     
    travistheone

    travistheone

    Usual Suspect
    Dec 11, 2008
    5,600
    cockeysville
    niftyvt said:
    Stove pipes are easy to clear and easy to diagnose for a handgun. There either is or isn't a big piece of brass sticking out of the gun blocking your vision. I just sweep them out with my support hand then bang. Anything else is a tap-rack-bang. If it doesn't bang then on to other things, usually I can tell when I do the rack step if more is needed, then its lock back-strip mag-rack until clear-re insert new mag (if I have one)-then bang. If the racks are not doing anything, which I can usually tell after the first or second rack, its time to lock back and finger the gun until all the bits that are in the way get out of the way, then insert and go. If its a shooting match I stop and get it done (rules permitting) if its defensive practice/training it involves running/moving around things while doing the steps. Being able to 'just tell' if more is needed during the rack part of the tap-rack-bang is all experience and feel from doing drills over and over and over again.

    If its a case that's hard stuck in the chamber, well, that's just a bad day if you are talking a defensive scenario. If its a range day then I stop, take the gun apart and tap it out with a wooden dowel or cleaning rod segment. The hard stuck case I cannot diagnose through feel alone. But I can see it when I do the lock back-strip-rack-re insert-bang process but it is visually indiscernible from a standard failure to extract. So, after the malfunction is cleared if its a hard stuck vs regular failure to extract then the racks wont do anything to fix it and you are stuck with the wooden dowel/cleaning rod option.

    If I cant really see what I am doing (dark, running flat out and need all my focus on where I am going and whats going on around me etc) then I go instantly to the tap-rack-bang, then to the lock back-strip-insert new mag-go if the old tap-rack-bang doesn't work the first time.
    Click to expand...

    Makes good sense.

    Thanks for the input!
     
    Blaster229

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,594
    Glen Burnie
    travistheone said:
    Makes sense.

    I should clarify that I do not mean dump the mag, instead remove and control the mag with weak hand while racking out any junk.

    Clarify that you treat almost every closed slide malfunction the same, tap rack.
    At least for the first "click". If tap rack doesn't work, time for a mag change.
    Click to expand...

    "Closed slide" I will usually tap the slide just incase it didn't go all the way into battery first.

    Tap or rack, I could go either way. Depends on my excitement stress level.
    Most of my malfunction experience has been with SIMS guns. They are notorious for issues and usually end up doing everything. Usually easier dumping the mag and starting over fresh.

    I don't think I really "diagnose" a problem "first". I just do something until it fires again.
     
    B

    BigT5g

    Ultimate Member
    May 12, 2014
    1,442
    Dayton MD
    Blaster229 said:
    I don't think I really "diagnose" a problem "first". I just do something until it fires again.
    Click to expand...

    This indeed. When clearing under stress (the only time it will likely matter how quickly you do it) you probably won't be able to diagnose.
    So I train to instantly tap wrack bang as fast as possible. This will clear stovepipes as well as closed slide malfs. Go a head and set up some stove pipes and try it. Tap wrack works great. This way you have a subconscious program to easily go to under stress that fixes most issues. If the tap wrack doesn't work then it's most likely a double feed and you just go right into that drill.
    But the key is drilling until you have a subconscious response and aren't delaying action due to either indecision or attempts to analyze the problem.
     
    alucard0822

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,703
    PA
    I was taught "type 1,2,3" drills, only time it hasn't worked quickly for me was a broken part. I'll look at the ejection port if I can, but most of the time I've been training for malfs, or they have happened in competition or force on force I can usually tap and rack before I could get a good look at what the actual cause of failure is.
     
    travistheone

    travistheone

    Usual Suspect
    Dec 11, 2008
    5,600
    cockeysville
    Great stuff so far.

    Clint Smith video is good. I wonder why he puts the mag in near his strong side pinky. Seems to make more sense to hold in hand and "pinch" rack the slide.

    hogarth- going to watch yours soon.
     
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