1903 Springfield advice needed

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  • Traveler

    Lighten up Francis
    Jan 18, 2013
    8,227
    AA County
    My son wants a 1903 Springfield for Christmas. Who doesn't.

    It does not have to be a beauty queen, but it has to be safe to shoot.

    Where do I start, and how do I not get ripped off?
     

    Cruacious

    C&R Farmer
    Apr 29, 2015
    1,595
    Elkton
    Seeing as I bought an all matching and nearly mint Remington 03A3 in Pennsylvania for 650 after tax and transfer, I'd say that's your best bet for a starter. Absolutely fantastic rifle for the price.
     

    toolness1

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 5, 2014
    2,723
    BFE, Missouri
    I would also suggest you join the gunboards forum and keep an eye on the trader subforum. I see great deals in there all the time. I've purchased ten or so firearms that way and never had any problem dealing with the other members who sold me the items.

    Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk
     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,480
    Fairfax, VA
    Watch the classifieds on The CMP Forums. Prices tend to be reasonable and sellers tend to be very descriptive. Prices otherwise seem to have exceeded crack into meth territory.

    Does he want an 03 or 03A3? They're two different rifles.

    Seeing as I bought an all matching and nearly mint Remington 03A3 in Pennsylvania for 650 after tax and transfer, I'd say that's your best bet for a starter. Absolutely fantastic rifle for the price.

    One of my friend's local shops in PA had three nice 03A3s for $650-700 OTD. He ended up buying a nice one too for $650. It certainly beats the gun show.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Whatever it is you find make sure you lay your eyes on it before you buy it. Ask a lot of questions and buy the best one you can find. There are some nice Remington's (M1903's} out there but earlier SA examples with milled parts and non diddled with stocks will probably be more appealing to you in the long run. Look around and see whats out there before you impulse buy because you will stumble into something decent at some point. 03A3's will be a little more abundant and easier on your wallet/to shoot because of longer sight radius.
     

    fred333

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 20, 2013
    12,340
    Try Gunbroker, buy from a long-established, reputable seller with an A+ rating and have a local gunsmith check it over.
    Many happy returns..
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    If you end up at the Chantilly show look for Ruger's Lugers (I think that's the name). As you enter he has a single table jam packed with Lugers, P38, 1911s and then 1903, 1903a3, garand etc. He is honest and will be happy to answer questions to get you what you want.
    He will price stuff based on condition and collectability. If you say you want a great or mint bore, he'd know it.

    You want a 1903 and not a 1903a3?
     

    Traveler

    Lighten up Francis
    Jan 18, 2013
    8,227
    AA County
    I would love to get the name of the PA shops that do good business. Why would I choose an 03 vs an 03A3? It will be a range gun, not a wall ornament.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    I would love to get the name of the PA shops that do good business. Why would I choose an 03 vs an 03A3? It will be a range gun, not a wall ornament.

    03a3 has the rear peep. easier to sight and tends to be more accurate to shoot.
     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,480
    Fairfax, VA
    I would love to get the name of the PA shops that do good business. Why would I choose an 03 vs an 03A3? It will be a range gun, not a wall ornament.

    If you have decent eyes, the 03 shoots very well too. You can't make as fine adjustments with an 03A3. Elevation on the 03A3 is limited to the 100yd increments. I personally can't get over the large rear sight aperture on the 03A3.
     

    gmkoh

    Active Member
    Feb 26, 2013
    327
    Annapolis
    In general, and I am not an expert, having recently acquired my first '03, but some really basic background on the '03 that may be helpful in your search

    The '03 is basically the rifle used pre WW2 , Starting 1942, the 03A3 was an "upgrade", Same barrels, but different rear sights, and some parts stamped instead of milled. Although the M1 Garand became the standard infantry rifle in 1937, 03 and 03A3's were used throughout WW2, with the 03A4 (sniper version) coming out I think sometime around 1942/43, (rear aperture sight removed and scope mounts added).
    The 03's were made by Springfield (mostly) and RIA. Early rifles (referred to as low number 03's) had questionable metal heat treating techniques (heat treated by "eye") and are considered by some to be possibly unsafe to fire. A search will tell you the serial number range of the "suspect" rifles (below about 800,000 for Remington and 250,500 for RIA). I don't think any A3's are in that unless maybe they were arsenal refurbished with early receivers.
    I found it interesting the the "battle sight" for the 03 was set for 570 yards!
     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,480
    Fairfax, VA
    In general, and I am not an expert, having recently acquired my first '03, but some really basic background on the '03 that may be helpful in your search

    The '03 is basically the rifle used pre WW2 , Starting 1942, the 03A3 was an "upgrade", Same barrels, but different rear sights, and some parts stamped instead of milled. Although the M1 Garand became the standard infantry rifle in 1937, 03 and 03A3's were used throughout WW2, with the 03A4 (sniper version) coming out I think sometime around 1942/43, (rear aperture sight removed and scope mounts added).
    The 03's were made by Springfield (mostly) and RIA. Early rifles (referred to as low number 03's) had questionable metal heat treating techniques (heat treated by "eye") and are considered by some to be possibly unsafe to fire. A search will tell you the serial number range of the "suspect" rifles (below about 800,000 for Remington and 250,500 for RIA). I don't think any A3's are in that unless maybe they were arsenal refurbished with early receivers.
    I found it interesting the the "battle sight" for the 03 was set for 570 yards!

    The barrels are different. An 03A3 barrel cannot be fitted with an 03 sight collar as-is. The profiles are different there.

    There are no low number or single heat treat receivers used for 03A3 production. An 03 receiver lacks the 03A3 rear sight dovetail, so they couldn't even if they wanted to. The cutoff is 800k for SA and 285507 for RIA.

    The 03A3 was a simplification more than an upgrade of the 03. During 03 production, Remingtion requested and received permission to make certain simplifications such as stamped parts, eliminating the grasping groove in the stock, and cross pins in the stocks. After a while, they designed the receiver rear sight and received the new designation of 03A3. Even when 03A3 production started, Remington still made a few more 03s from spare parts by milling off the rear sight dovetail. Some sources argue that the 03A3 never saw combat use while others say it did. Either way, very few of them made it overseas during WWII in comparison to the 03s.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    There was never a problem with 03's and heat treatment. The problem was over carburizing the billets or raw forgings which could lead to a crystalline grain structure. The low carbon steel billets were not manufactured with pyrometers until later in production. Wartime slave labor Mauser's were subject to the same phenomena but not to the point where they are infamous. Low carbon steel has a built in safety margin in that it is core hardenable only to a certain extent, over carburizing can cancel out the safety factor in low carbon 1035 steel. The heat treating on 03's was done to case harden the exterior for wear characteristics while allowing the inner core to stay soft and allow lug set back by stretching before breaking in the case of excess head-space or by being pressure abused. 03's were also never designed to handle a ruptured case as well as the Mauser parent.
     
    Last edited:

    SmokeEaterPilot

    Active Member
    Jun 3, 2011
    524
    My son wants a 1903 Springfield for Christmas. Who doesn't.

    It does not have to be a beauty queen, but it has to be safe to shoot.

    Where do I start, and how do I not get ripped off?

    Well you picked the right time. The 03 market is super soft right now. It's a wonderful time to buy.

    My advice, cast a wide net. Gunbroker is your best bet. Avoid armslist unless

    Shooter 03s can be had for about 500-800ish right now. I can't speak for the 03A3s since I don't collect them.

    Look for high number receiver mixmaster rebuilds above SN 800k for Springfield manufacture and above RIA SN 285507, those are safe to shoot. WWII dated rebarrels typically bring a lower price as well unless they're a USMC rebuild.

    In short, look at Gunbroker for SNs above those numbers, with WWII dated barrels and you should find an economical shooter as a beginner 03 Rifle.

    Be careful they can be addictive. I got my first 03 from Ohio Ordnance Works for $300 a few years back and now I have a little over 20 of them.
     

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