Winchester Lee-Navy Musket of 1895

This is the 2nd item I got from last Saturday's auction in WV. I've lusted after a Winchester Lee Navy for decades. I saw one dark photo in the auction ad and knew instantly what it was. Yet it wasn't listed in the ad. So game on, there's a good chance dealers and other whales won't be attending this tiny auction in a remote part of WV.
-Was initially disappointed when examining it. Bolt stop was broken and the fragile and easy to lose extractor was missing. Additionally there was some damage to the stock comb. But then it sunk in that all these parts are readily available as originals but for the extractor which is only available as a repop. But that wasn't a deal breaker. In fact, it was in pretty solid condition. So it had to come home with me.
-This is one of the first 1500, built in late 1896, chambered to take the first metric cartridge in US military history: 6 mm Lee Navy or .236 Navy. There were two basic variations of the Lee Navy. The later version incorporated lots of small updates to address lots of issues discovered as the musket was fielded...

Front sight hood added
Finger grooved stock
Improved extractor
Solid bolt handle
Gas shield on bolt
Updated firing pin
Updated firing pin lock w. roller
Revised bolt stop
Extractor screw added

-Some problems plagued the Lee Navy to the end of its short tenure. The extractor and bolt stops were the two major issues. Cleaning the small bore was difficult as well. Throw in the fact that Lee Navy muskets were issued shipboard and used extensively in salt water environments by the Marines and you need to keep after the bore or it's gonna pit post haste. Getting that small bore clean was a chore.
-Lee Navy muskets saw action in Cuba, the Philippines and China. It was a very accurate arm, reports of minute of aim accuracy were reported. And with the near straight pull action it was fast. The very thing the Navy wanted to take on MTBs. It had to be flat shooting and fast. Ammo was held in clips, similar in principal to a Mannlicher. Yet it could be single loaded as well.
-In all about 20,000 Lee Navy muskets were built for the US government. There were some sporters built and genuine examples can be hard to find. Lots of sporterized muskets abound.

Additional photos inc. an ammo clip.

China Marines with Lee Navy Muskets.

I really enjoy these threads...the chase, the capture, and then the history.

Keep it up!

Awesome!
I would say that was well worth the gamble of a long drive ...
and see why you're so excited about it, the metal looks to be in remarkable shape.
A little TLC, a part here and a part there and it's a crown jewel

Is the bore OK?

somd_mustangs said:

Awesome!
I would say that was well worth the gamble of a long drive ...
and see why you're so excited about it, the metal looks to be in remarkable shape.
A little TLC, a part here and a part there and it's a crown jewel

Is the bore OK?

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Bore is slightly fouled. Started a good soak and clean with Kroil. Have a good feeling that there's a VG bore under the lead looking at the first patches coming out.
This one might be a shooter. I did some reading on two well noted failures of Navy Lees and Ian up on Forgotten Weapons has a working theory that brass was at the heart of it. You can use .220 Swift or .30-40 Krag brass to form .236 Lee Navy brass. Both failures were using .30-40 brass. The thought is that this brass failed at the base and the action couldn't deal with the gas pressure. Makes sense, much more than anything I've read about up to now. So if I do shoot her it'll be using .220 Swift brass.

Some photos of the extractor. It's not secured to the bolt in a traditional way so when you remove the bolt the extractor is free to drop out. When the first rifles were being used for drills many extractors were lost when the bolt stop was accidentally pushed down, allowing the bolt to come out of the action. Lots of spare extractors were placed on order early in the life of the Lee Navy!
The cause was the locked position of the bolt stop had it above the top of the receiver (see 1st photo of the receiver, bolt stop is on the left). When pressed down to a flush position (2nd photo) it was unlocked and the bolt could be removed. All too often the stop was pushed down accidentally in the field and out came the bolt and loose extractor!
The second variant fixed this by making the locked position flush with the receiver so it couldn't be accidentally disengaged. One of many fixes enacted.

That is so cool! I've never seen one up close before and always thought they were neat rifles. Glad you chased one down finally!

Thanks for sharing. I actually saw a couple of these out in Northwestern MD a few months ago at around $1000, but I didn't/don't know enough about them to know what to look for. Also they have already sold, in case anyone was going to PM me to ask for location.

Oh, I'm jealous! I've always wanted a Winchester Lee for the collection. Nice find!!

fbi_surveillance_van said:

Thanks for sharing. I actually saw a couple of these out in Northwestern MD a few months ago at around $1000, but I didn't/don't know enough about them to know what to look for. Also they have already sold, in case anyone was going to PM me to ask for location.

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$1k for one of these in good condition is stupid cheap. There's a rough one coming up in an Amoskeag auction and they're estimating $1200-1500 and that's probably in the ball park.

mawkie said:

$1k for one of these in good condition is stupid cheap. There's a rough one coming up in an Amoskeag auction and they're estimating $1200-1500 and that's probably in the ball park.

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Good to know. I don't really have that kind of money to throw around on milsurps right now, but I have been considering getting an American milsurp rifle in the next few years. I was more thinking Springfield Trapdoor or some kind of rolling block rifle, but who knows how I'll feel once I have the budget.

Let me know if you ever plan to shoot it mawkie, I'd love to join you and share. One of my pleasures in life I try to indulge in is to shoot anything odd, unusual, or rare I get my hands on. Quite fun to do so.

fbi_surveillance_van said:

Good to know. I don't really have that kind of money to throw around on milsurps right now, but I have been considering getting an American milsurp rifle in the next few years. I was more thinking Springfield Trapdoor or some kind of rolling block rifle, but who knows how I'll feel once I have the budget.

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I pulled something out of the safe that I think you'll like! Look for a new thread from me...

Cruacious said:

Let me know if you ever plan to shoot it mawkie, I'd love to join you and share. One of my pleasures in life I try to indulge in is to shoot anything odd, unusual, or rare I get my hands on. Quite fun to do so.

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Will do! Might be a while so shoot a reminder later on, my memory isn't so sharp anymore so I do forget promises, much to my shame.