Dear Fudds...

gtodave · Jun 20, 2019

I actually like these changes, and they make perfect sense to me. I'm not sure how this is "anti gun". It is anti establishment though, which I am generally for.

This opens up new public land to hunters, and offers opportunities to leased land to people who never had it before. I understand that clubs that have been entrenched in a spot for years would feel stiffed by this, but remember...it isn't your land.

The only problem I see is that for the leased land, at the end of the 5-year lease, people will start killing marginal bucks because they are "their bucks", leaving the next group to start over. But, you can raise some good deer in 5 years, and the reality will most likely be that there will be few people looking to lease, and many of the tracts will end up in the same hands year after year.

budman93 · Jun 20, 2019

Sounds good to me. I no longer have access to any private hunting land so I haven't been hunting at all. I have tried public land and every time i go it is so crowded you can't go 50 yards without running into someone. Not a fan of that. More land means hunters on public land will be more spread out.

PJDiesel · Jun 20, 2019

Interesting turn of events here.

Started out as an attempt at a quasi-insult to "Fudds" of all types,... turned around and now the consensus is it's not a half bad idea!

I have a few other suggestions about how we can insult and made strides towards vilifying the massive number of avid hunters/outdoorsmen and year round sporting shooters, most of which couldn't give a fugg less about an AR mind you.

Difference is, they're not going around being confrontational and argumentative.

Fredcohunter · Jun 20, 2019

what does this have to do with hunters support of 2a rights exactly? I understand there is an argument to be made about certain hunters losing lease rights but as others have said MD needs more public hunting land, not less.

PJDiesel · Jun 20, 2019

Fredcohunter said:
what does this have to do with hunters support of 2a rights exactly? I understand there is an argument to be made about certain hunters losing lease rights but as others have said MD needs more public hunting land, not less.

Nothing, that's the point. It's a common and often hashed out theme here. Neckbeards and self appointed home security commandos like to assume they are the only ones who care about the 2A.

Hence an article that has jack shit to do with a 2nd Amendment right, being posted as an attempt to insult actual shooters who happen to be hunters and/or sporting shooters like myself.

PJDiesel · Jun 20, 2019

Raineman · Jun 20, 2019

Bob A said:
This is Brian Frosh we're talking about. He has never, and will never, do anything good for firearms owners in Maryland.

Eventually his true motivation will become apparent.

John from MD said:
My take on this is that it is a trap of some sort. Brian Frosh could care less about hunters and the public. He is only interested in the demorats and illegals that he can get to vote for him and the communist party that the they are becoming. There is no way that Frosh is doing this for the "good of the people". He actively works to disarm us and there is a pitfall in this plan somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if it was suggested by PETA for some reason.

There is a group of people that pull tall 4 legged animals out of barns and trailers and ride them. This group has very deep pockets (that they use politically) and the majority who are not hunters themselves, hate hunters.

I bet this group would love to open up its deep pockets and secure the leases for themselves, essentially rendering it useless for the pursuit of game (other than maybe fox, by them), and shitboy has just made that a possibility as I see it.

Czechnologist · Jun 20, 2019

PJDiesel said:
Nothing, that's the point. It's a common and often hashed out theme here. Neckbeards and self appointed home security commandos like to assume they are the only ones who care about the 2A.

Hence an article that has jack shit to do with a 2nd Amendment right, being posted as an attempt to insult actual shooters who happen to be hunters and/or sporting shooters like myself.

Actually, it was just another (lame) excuse for the OP to tell us how he's gonna go down in a blaze of glory if/when the authorities come to take his guns. Seems like he feels obligated to do that every couple of months or so, along with the obligatory insults.

danb · Jun 20, 2019

PJDiesel said:
Nothing, that's the point. It's a common and often hashed out theme here. Neckbeards and self appointed home security commandos like to assume they are the only ones who care about the 2A.

Hence an article that has jack shit to do with a 2nd Amendment right, being posted as an attempt to insult actual shooters who happen to be hunters and/or sporting shooters like myself.

Those are not mutually exclusive.

PJDiesel · Jun 20, 2019

danb said:
Those are not mutually exclusive.

Probably so.

I was trying to convey a negative imagine of the guys who are the "too cool for the room" types when it comes to gun use/ownership.

That's the best I could come up with on the fly, I'm sure there are better names to use.

Boom Boom · Jun 20, 2019

Bob A said:
This is Brian Frosh we're talking about. He has never, and will never, do anything good for firearms owners in Maryland.

Eventually his true motivation will become apparent. Meanwhile, he's driving wedges into our community, just to see what he can break.

I'll speculate. He's hoping to get litterbugs on those properties. Then DNR steps in, cries about pristine land being trashed, and promptly shuts it off from all hunting.

John from MD · Jun 20, 2019

You can be damn sure he isn't doing this for the hunters! He hates all gun owners. He wouldn't even look at us when crossing the street in Annapolis.

I hope that someone can dig up his real reason for doing this. It may well be to drive a wedge between the various hunting factions. Or, as Rainman said earlier, it may be a ploy so that the Horse Lobby can get their foot in the door and stop all hunting in those areas. I know for a fact it was them that kept Sunday hunting from being a reality in Maryland.

danb · Jun 20, 2019

Frosh probably didn't "do" anything. From the presentation, I think the DNR initiated the idea to better manage the properties and asked the AG (probably a low level staffer) whether it was legal. The AG said yes, and btw you should stop auto-renewing leases to prevent this in the future. Any third rate attorney would probably give the same advice.

Frosh is way to busy tilting at Trump windmills and losing for this to be a priority.

RedneckGeek · Jun 20, 2019

terp91 said:
As someone currently on one of the existing leases, I am not a fan of the proposed changes. I don't have an issue with converting some of the larger tracts to public land, but would want to see the clubs that lose leases be given first shot at picking up a new one the following year. People on the outside who complain there's no hunting land and want to take away others' places to hunt likely don't understand the work that goes in to maintaining these leased properties. Plus if you're willing to drive and put in the time there is still a lot of public land available. I probably split my time 50-50 between the lease and public land last year.

Negatives I see coming from this include:
1. A sharp decrease in the quality of both herd and property management. How many will put in the time and money on a property they may not have in a couple years? Why try to manage a herd for the benefit of the next guys?
2. Small clubs will lose out on leases to large clubs (the more people you have, the more lottery entries you have on a property your club wants). With not knowing the quality of a lease going into it, this will become a numbers game for large clubs to collect leases until the 'better' ones are all known and the large clubs compete for them every time they become available.
3. The lease cost is likely to increase quickly. Since the leases are not going to be as well cared for, the cost for the state to maintain/clean them up will increase and be passed on to the leases.

Example: The property I hunt now is being partially logged this year. Because we have a vested interest in the property, all of the roads on it have been well maintained. If they had not been maintained the past few years the state would be eating a significant cost to improve them in order to get the trucks in to log the property. When we first got it, the previous club had violated a number of rules regarding placing structures on the property, setting up permanent tree stands, cutting down trees, damaging trees, littering, it wasn't properly posted, etc. All the clean up work was done by us, because we had a vested interest in it. Take away the ability to renew leases and I'd bet most people will not put in the time, energy, and money needed to keep these leases nice.

This is a very well thoughtout and understandable response to the proposed changes. I can see those points as valid.

Whereas the OP sounds like Bernie Sanders sitting in one of his three houses telling me I need to pay more taxes.

Melnic · Jun 20, 2019

Chesapeake forest is on the eastern shore
https://dnr.maryland.gov/forests/Pages/chesapeakeforestlands_publichuntingmaps.aspx

It used to be land owned by a forestry company/guy and then donated I recall.

I've hunted the property off 60 ft road (Campbell), took my first deer there, and another park area further south (Foster Estate).

I do not support the idea of converting the leased land to public. I only hunted those areas 3 years but I can say that if I want to drive a tad further, I can find plenty of public land to hunt over there.
I think the one time I muzzleloader hunted Foster Estate, my dad and I were the only ones parked in the middle main parking area for 2 days.

If 8900 acres were converted to public hunting in Howard, Montgomery and Carroll County, that would be a different story.

dannyp · Jun 20, 2019

i have to agree with terp91, our club will be impacted by this also . why whould anyone put forth the effort to activliy manage a lease for the next guy ? we maintain fire roads , keep the entrances clear , trash picked up, who is going to do all of that ?

Melnic · Jun 20, 2019

dannyp said:
i have to agree with terp91, our club will be impacted by this also . why whould anyone put forth the effort to activliy manage a lease for the next guy ? we maintain fire roads , keep the entrances clear , trash picked up, who is going to do all of that ?

That should be the big thing at those meetings by the lease folks. Who is going to pay for the maintenance of the new turned open public lands?

Doco Overboard · Jun 20, 2019

When they log trucks very rarely enter very far into the tract to load. Skidders do all the work during thinning, skidding timber out to an area that's matted. These lands are not being clear cut. Road maintenance is a very poor argument.

danb · Jun 20, 2019

Also the resource managers want the land to grow "naturally" so the maintenance argument may even backfire. Less human intervention may sound like a good thing.

Mike3888 · Jun 20, 2019

Doco Overboard said:
When they log trucks very rarely enter very far into the tract to load. Skidders do all the work during thinning, skidding timber out to an area that's matted. These lands are not being clear cut. Road maintenance is a very poor argument.

No clear cut, they call it select harvest. At least that’s what we were told for the lease we have. They did ours in January after they had too lay about a mile of heavy stone. And they did exactly like you said. Laid mats and stationed everything. It don’t make no difference to me what they do. I’ve got other places. I’ll certainly miss hunting there after the gun opener as it’s pretty much scarce of members. Sure would like to know the outcome now. This way I’ll opt out now and save my dues..

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